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Jewish Messiah

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Sleeppy, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    Aaron was the first person annointed with the holy oil. Messiah simply means annointed [with oil]. As every authorized High Priest and King was annointed, they were all messiahs. The Tanakh calls many people messiah. As a matter of fact, while the word "a messiah" occurs in the Tanakh many times, the word "The Messiah" doesn't occur a single time in the Tanakh.
     
  2. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    It's not as ignorant as it can seem. Christians teach Exodus 19:6, albeit differently than Jews. They use the 'language' and understandings of the titles, 'priest' and 'king', placing them as more accessible authorities in their individual lives.
     
  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Again correct.
     
  4. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    That makes a world of difference. If those things haven't happened and aren't happening then the messianic era hasn't happened yet.
     
  5. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Then who was this supposedly long awaited person known as "The Messiah"? That fulfilled many so-called prophesies, but none of the ones he was supposed to? Was the concept of The Messiah a construct of christianity or Judaism?
     
  6. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Or rather those are events that are going to be being played out gradually after this person appears to get the ball rolling.

    In 30 A.D., less than 1% of the world acknowledged the Abrahamic god. Today it's over 51%.
     
  7. FranklinMichaelV.3

    FranklinMichaelV.3 Well-Known Member

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    Arguably by force and you would say that many those worshipping the Abrahamic God do so falsely.
     
  8. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Is Elijah expected to anoint the Messiah of the Messianic age?
     
  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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  10. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you're talking about. There have been thousands of messianic claimants, but none of them have completed all the prophecies. So there Is no one that has fulfilled 'many' prophecies. The most successful claimant was Bar Kochba, but since he failed to do all of them, he also didn't earn the messianic title. All it means is that we know what our future messiah is supposed to do, but as the actions haven't yet been completed, our messiah has yet to come. More importantly, the Messianic Age has yet to commence.

    Christianity has their own definition of a messiah, which has zero to do with the definition of messiah within Judaism and the Tanakh.
     
  11. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Do the Messianic prophecies imply that those events will NOT be catalyzed by force?

    Why do you think Bar Kokhba was thought to be the Messiah by so many?

    Zechariah 14 says the Gentiles will go to Jerusalem to obey Succoth, at threat of plague and drought.

    With that said, I think those who converted by force alone and are only believers in name only throughout history have not been the majority. There was millions of Christians before Constantine even legalized it for a reason. Even if I disagree with their Theology. Besides, there lies the question of why those in force were given the authority to subjugate the pagan.

    What is the prophecy supposed to imply, that all the world will be mind controlled to accept the Abrahamic god on their own? That some great philosopher will enlighten them to new arguments no philosopher has ever presented?
     
    #31 Shermana, Nov 23, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  12. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    You are doing the same thing the christians do.

    You are finding a word and taking it out of context.

    The messiah has not come yet. There have been no messiahs yet. There will be one.

    The messiah will bring in the messianic age, and the prophesies will be completed during his lifetime.
     
  13. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    Unforuntaely, when jews have had bad times, they were hoping for the messiah to come.

    I think what is really interesting is the story of Shabtai Tzvi. He was another false messiah.

    Shabbetai Tzvi - My Jewish Learning
     
  14. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    There has not been a single anointed one?

    By all means, show me where the text says the prophecies will be completed during his life time, that would be great. All the conflicting Rabbinical opinions about it can finally be put to rest!
     
  15. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    What prophecies did Zevi's disciples claim he fulfilled in the first place?

    Or Frank?
     
  16. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    Show me where it says that it will be in different parts?

    We can't make stuff up just so it fits into christian beliefs.

    The Tanach gives the messianic prophesies that will occur during the time of the messiah. If he is dead then they couldn't be fulfilled during his lifetime.

    In fact other than riding a donkey jesus fulfilled none of the prophesies. He wasn't even close. He wasn't even close to close. He wasn't even close to close to close.

    In fact, one of the prophesies is that the temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever. Instead, soon after jesus died, the temple was destroyed.
     
  17. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    Whose Frank?

    Please read the link I posted.
     
  18. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    The point is that it's up to interpretation, we cannot just say something as is a matter of fact, or that another interpretation is completely necessarily wrong.

    The point is that the Tanakh does not say "This will happen while this person is alive" whatsoever. Nothing gives that indication. What it seems to imply is that certain events will manifest after this person exists. Especially so in the sense that the person will be killed. The idea that the "Suffering Servant" in Isaiah 53:10 is Israel requires basically cutting out the rest of Isaiah 53 and Isaiah in general to get to that context, and some very convoluted interpretations of what it means to die for other people's sins.
     
  19. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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  20. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Shabbetai Tzvi - My Jewish Learning

    I must have missed where in this article my question is answered of which prophecies his followers believed he fulfilled. Have YOU read it?
     
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