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Featured Jewish Meaning of Leviathan

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by David Davidovich, Jul 2, 2022.

  1. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    I would like to know what exactly is the Jewish meaning of Leviathan, which is described in Tehillim - Psalms - Chapter 74:14:

    click here: Tehillim - Psalms - Chapter 74 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible (chabad.org)

    Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 27:1:

    click here: Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 27 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible (chabad.org)

    And the entire chapter of Iyov - Job - Chapter 41:

    click here: Iyov - Job - Chapter 42 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible (chabad.org)

    But you get the original text language in the chapter of Job that I copied and pasted. :) But I have read and looked at a lot of commentary on these verses, however, I would like to know what the Jewish viewpoint is.
     
  2. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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  3. Sand Dancer

    Sand Dancer Crazy Cat Lady

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    I can't speak for the Jewish meaning, but the idea came from Canaanite myth, which may have stemmed from Hindu myth.
     
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  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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  5. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    (emphasis is mine)

    Thank you, dybmh.
     
  6. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    click here: Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia

    Therefore, this is the kind of thing that I am finding concerning references of pagan myths in the Hebrew Bible, even though, paganism is supposed to be an anathema to Jews. :confused:
     
  7. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    And this is slightly off topic with the Christian Bible in mind:

     
  8. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    click here: Yam (god) - New World Encyclopedia
     
  9. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    More reading for anyone who's interested:

    click here: The Baals in your court. How this doofus storm god became a… | by Daniel Kenis | The Purple People | Medium
     
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  10. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    I found a very informative 18-minute video about Leviathan, which briefly covers some Christian, but mostly Hebrew/Jewish aspects of Leviathan such as Job 3:8, the Midrash, in a Jewish hymn sung at the Festival of Shavout and the Jewish Talmud. Although, the video did say that it's part of the Avoda Zara in the Talmud. Also, as the video goes along, it seems to demonstrate that Leviathan was more than just a metaphor but seemed to be something that the ancient Hebrews (including Job) thought was part of real life. Also, the way that this video covers Job 41, it really seems like God is speaking about something real.

     
  11. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    I'm curious. Is this thread being shadow banned or something? Because it seems like the views have gotten lower than they were the other day. :confused:
     
  12. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    If you think there's a bug, feel free to report it to the staff in Site Feedback and we'll see if there's anything that can be done. https://www.religiousforums.com/forums/site-feedback.344/
     
  13. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    Okay, but I'll just continue to keep an eye on it. Also, sometimes I get the impression that people may be thinking that David Davidovich is not playing fair by referring to Leviathan... And perhaps that is the reason why this is one thread that Ehav4Ever won't go near.
     
  14. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Just reminding to tag members with a @ before their username when you mention them.

    I don't know about fair or not fair, but you must realize that not everyone has something to say about every topic, or wishes to say something about every topic, or has time to say something about every topic. Not everything is a conspiracy against you. :)

    If you're looking for an answer from a particular member, you can tag them and request they reply, but they aren't under any obligation to do so.
     
  15. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    Well, I wasn't trying to imply that there was a conspiracy against me, but there was a forum that I used to read years ago, and it actually had a Judaism section, which was actually protected by the forum. And they didn't allow anyone to say anything that was either bad or somehow depreciating to Jews. Therefore, I didn't know if this forum was the same way. However, I probably just remembered the view count incorrectly.

    Okay, no problem. However, I do want to say that I've come to the conclusion that Jews either don't care about Leviathan or perhaps the topic of Leviathan is embarrassing to them and therefore, they just kind of dismiss it. :shrug:
     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Haven't a clue. Sea monster would be my first guess, since they seem to have been popular in ANE mythology. What do you think?
     
  17. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    Well, that seems to be what the evidence is pointing to. However, I don't quite understand why Hashem would include that in the Tanakh since paganism is supposed to be an anathema to Hashem.
     
  18. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    RF has sections that are open only to members of certain groups. We also have rules against trolling, bullying or disparaging various groups, not just Jews. But we welcome discussion and debate, and respectful criticism in the relevant sections of the forums.
    For most, it's more the former. Orthodox Jews, as well as traditional Jews in the past believe that in the World to Come, righteous people will enjoy some kind of feast comprised of the dead Leviathan and Behemoth, while sitting in a Sukkah (booth) made out of the skin of the Leviathan. This is obviously symbolic of something because eating is not something needed in the World to Come. I didn't mention this because it's not really related to the verses in Isaiah and Job. More Psalms, maybe. Anyway, most Jews don't spend time thinking about it too much. That may be shocking to you, but that's life.
    There are many, many such examples and it seems that every now and then someone finds another example. The conclusion is that from this perspective, the entire Tanach exists just as a Jewification of ancient mythological narratives from all over the world (mostly Mesopotamia and Egypt, but even Grecian concepts may be found, theoretically). This Jewification is not plagiarism, as many wish to claim. The Tanach, I believe, comes to present the true way one is supposed to view these stories and events, as well as being one continuous volley of headbutts to idolatry and idolatrous concepts.

    However, this understanding of Tanach is something that troubles me a lot, for reasons that I don't want to go into here. I will only say that I have not yet found a satisfactory solution to these issues.
     
  19. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Livyatan - Wikipedia

    I can't believe science would have paganism in it when religious faith is anathema to scientific reasoning.
     
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  20. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    For those of us who believe that the Tanakh is a multivalent human product, this is not a meaningful question.

    For those Jews who view the text as Hashem-authored, many might consider a lesson from Job, i.e., that it's presumptuous at best to think we should always be able to "quite understand" G-d.
     
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