Jesus without baggage

[Deidre]

I found this whilst looking for something else earlier, and thought it was interesting. I've felt that my main reasons for leaving Christianity weren't that I couldn't accept Jesus as a potentially real historical figure or that I couldn't view him as a saving grace in my life, but rather the Bible and all of its outlandish stories, rules and dogma that detract from the beauty of who Jesus could be. I don't even know if the Jesus story was tainted, to be honest, by man's desire to control others through one, central religion.

Anyways, thought this was interesting, and worth sharing.

Jesus Without Baggage

 

[Twilight Hue]

I found this whilst looking for something else earlier, and thought it was interesting. I've felt that my main reasons for leaving Christianity weren't that I couldn't accept Jesus as a potentially real historical figure or that I couldn't view him as a saving grace in my life, but rather the Bible and all of its outlandish stories, rules and dogma that detract from the beauty of who Jesus could be. I don't even know if the Jesus story was tainted, to be honest, by man's desire to control others through one, central religion.

Anyways, thought this was interesting, and worth sharing.

Jesus Without Baggage

I certainly don't ascribe to Jesus and Christianity anymore, but that said, it is imo a good step in the right direction.

I never liked how organizational standards, can be compared with fraternal aspects like brotherhood, sisterhood, and the emotions that comes from such camaraderie. I think a person having a personal Jesus that can be intimately related with, is by far in a much better position in life than a person who goes by the organisational definitions and standards by which the character of Jesus is prevalent.

 

[Deidre]

I certainly don't ascribe to Jesus and Christianity anymore, but that said, it is imo a good step in the right direction.

I never liked how organizational standards, can be compared with fraternal aspects like brotherhood, sisterhood, and the emotions that comes from such camaraderie. I think a person having a personal Jesus that can be intimately related with, is by far in a much better position in life than a person who goes by the organisational definitions and standards by which the character of Jesus is prevalent.

I have to say, I'm loving your posts, lately. All you say resonates SO much with me...I like how you write your thoughts out.

I agree with what you're saying here.

 

[sun rise]

I basically agree with that site. All scriptures including the Bible have been modified and interpreted by people with mixed and sometimes dark motives. There are some other passages that seem authentic to me, but the two that really stand out for me are the Sermon on the Mount and especially the statement of the two "greatest" commandments.

I am in no sense a legalistic Christian but I revere that message of the living Christ and try, imperfectly, to align my life with that message.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I found this whilst looking for something else earlier, and thought it was interesting. I've felt that my main reasons for leaving Christianity weren't that I couldn't accept Jesus as a potentially real historical figure or that I couldn't view him as a saving grace in my life, but rather the Bible and all of its outlandish stories, rules and dogma that detract from the beauty of who Jesus could be. I don't even know if the Jesus story was tainted, to be honest, by man's desire to control others through one, central religion.

Anyways, thought this was interesting, and worth sharing.

Jesus Without Baggage

Honestly, I really don't know why rules and dogma push people away if they could honestly explore it if they weren't indoctrinated in it. It's unhealthy to put baggage on people who don't want it; but, since I came into Catholicism as an adult, the "baggage" was more of a support that helped me understand the nature of christianity without needing the bible to confirm it. It was more devotion and dedication to experience and action rather than study and analysing the bible as if god spoke through the bible rather than through the person. I honestly feel if christianity wasn't heavily seeded in the bible, I'd probably stay.

That, and I don't understand the concept of "man" as if we (rather than they) have something to do with corrupting god's message or something. If I am a part of the body of christ, I'd assume that if man is judged for corrupting something, I'm a part of the cause of that corruption. So, practicing and listening to other people's baggage put on me as a former Catholic (and if I were) is very hard.

But if I took other people's baggage off, and could see the bible in a different light, it would be a lot easier. I just wish others had the experience I had. Dogma and rules would have more respect than one would by learned bias.

That's my opinion.

 

[Super Universe]

I found this whilst looking for something else earlier, and thought it was interesting. I've felt that my main reasons for leaving Christianity weren't that I couldn't accept Jesus as a potentially real historical figure or that I couldn't view him as a saving grace in my life, but rather the Bible and all of its outlandish stories, rules and dogma that detract from the beauty of who Jesus could be. I don't even know if the Jesus story was tainted, to be honest, by man's desire to control others through one, central religion.

Anyways, thought this was interesting, and worth sharing.

Jesus Without Baggage

The Urantia Book has the story of Jesus entire life on the earth, not just from age 30 and on.

You can find the UB free online to read or download it for free.

 

[DavidFirth]

I found this whilst looking for something else earlier, and thought it was interesting. I've felt that my main reasons for leaving Christianity weren't that I couldn't accept Jesus as a potentially real historical figure or that I couldn't view him as a saving grace in my life, but rather the Bible and all of its outlandish stories, rules and dogma that detract from the beauty of who Jesus could be. I don't even know if the Jesus story was tainted, to be honest, by man's desire to control others through one, central religion.

Anyways, thought this was interesting, and worth sharing.

Jesus Without Baggage

Deidre, I recommend you reread the book of Romans. Go slow and think about what is being said.

We aren't saved because we follow religious rules; we're saved because Jesus lived those rules for us and died in our place on the cross, paying our penalty Himself. Living by rules has nothing to do with it.

I had to read Romans many times before I think I really started to comprehend and understand the entire book. Anyway, it is clear that we are not loved by God because we follow rules; He loves us whether we live good lives or not. It is the love of Christ that changes us, we cannot change ourselves.

 

[Deidre]

Deidre, I recommend you reread the book of Romans. Go slow and think about what is being said.

I just might re-read the Bible, David. I thought about it earlier today. But, I don't care for Paul, to be honest. The problem I have with Romans, is that sometimes it feels like Paul is glorifying himself as he attempts to give the glory to Jesus. I've always, always felt that way, even when I was really strong in the faith.

We aren't saved because we follow religious rules; we're saved because Jesus lived those rules for us and died in our place on the cross, paying our penalty Himself. Living by rules has nothing to do with it.

But, he didn't always live those rules, for example, there is the story of him healing on the Sabbath, so he wasn't into legalism, either.

I had to read Romans many times before I think I really started to comprehend and understand the entire book. Anyway, it is clear that we are not loved by God because we follow rules; He loves us whether we live good lives or not. It is the love of Christ that changes us, we cannot change ourselves.

Okay.

What do you think about people who ''change'' but don't follow any one religion, or belief system? Do you think that without a belief in Jesus, that your life would look radically different? Just wondering.

 

[Deidre]

Honestly, I really don't know why rules and dogma push people away if they could honestly explore it if they weren't indoctrinated in it. It's unhealthy to put baggage on people who don't want it; but, since I came into Catholicism as an adult, the "baggage" was more of a support that helped me understand the nature of christianity without needing the bible to confirm it. It was more devotion and dedication to experience and action rather than study and analysing the bible as if god spoke through the bible rather than through the person. I honestly feel if christianity wasn't heavily seeded in the bible, I'd probably stay.

Ah, I totally get this, Carlita. I came back to faith nearly two years ago based on what seemed like a true and real experience with the ''Holy Spirit.'' I was filled with joy like I hadn't felt before and felt ''born again.'' I didn't return because something jumped out at me from the Bible, and this magical lightbulb moment happened. I find that many people are driven away from all types of faiths, because of the strong adherence to dogma that was handed down by others. The Bible is one book, is one set of ideas when it comes to how people process if there could be a god or not. But, is it ''thee'' book? That requires faith to think that. I feel that people should experience faith, that it's an experience, not just a handed down set of values from thousands of years ago, and we are just supposed to accept it because they did. That's one of the problems I have with the Bible.

That, and I don't understand the concept of "man" as if we (rather than they) have something to do with corrupting god's message or something. If I am a part of the body of christ, I'd assume that if man is judged for corrupting something, I'm a part of the cause of that corruption. So, practicing and listening to other people's baggage put on me as a former Catholic (and if I were) is very hard.

This is interesting. Well, I can't help but wonder if the people who actually put the books together to form the Bible, did it all with altruistic motivations. That said, suppose you never read the Bible in your life? Can the Holy Spirit not speak through us...through others to us...in order to bring us to faith? I think so. How else could we explain all the conversions that happen in places where they don't have access to any Bibles.

But if I took other people's baggage off, and could see the bible in a different light, it would be a lot easier. I just wish others had the experience I had. Dogma and rules would have more respect than one would by learned bias.

That's my opinion.

I think a lot of people who are into dogma and rules, have no experiences of faith. So, they believe largely out of fear, sadly.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I think a lot of people who are into dogma and rules, have no experiences of faith. So, they believe largely out of fear, sadly.

Unfortuately, I find this to be true, true, true...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Deidre

Ah, I totally get this, Carlita. I came back to faith nearly two years ago based on what seemed like a true and real experience with the ''Holy Spirit.'' I was filled with joy like I hadn't felt before and felt ''born again.'' I didn't return because something jumped out at me from the Bible, and this magical lightbulb moment happened. I find that many people are driven away from all types of faiths, because of the strong adherence to dogma that was handed down by others. The Bible is one book, is one set of ideas when it comes to how people process if there could be a god or not. But, is it ''thee'' book? That requires faith to think that. I feel that people should experience faith, that it's an experience, not just a handed down set of values from thousands of years ago, and we are just supposed to accept it because they did. That's one of the problems I have with the Bible.

Actually, I honestly don't feel the bible is thee book; and, to those who believe so (like how you see people in dogma), I see people idolizing the bible rather than living it through action and devotion. How you feel about dogma, I feel about the bible. Dogma and rules (if one likes) structures how one praises god so they won't go running around thinking god accepts everything they do. Not everyone can follow a structure-it's not wrong just who they are doesn't click with that type of discipline.

Depending on the bible more than devotion or in place of devotion is pure idolism. Many people think christ words and the bible are one and the same. Yet, I wonder when they pray to christ, do they hear christ himself or read the words the authors wrote about him instead.

This is interesting. Well, I can't help but wonder if the people who actually put the books together to form the Bible, did it all with altruistic motivations. That said, suppose you never read the Bible in your life? Can the Holy Spirit not speak through us...through others to us...in order to bring us to faith? I think so. How else could we explain all the conversions that happen in places where they don't have access to any Bibles.

If we generalize it a lot and took out religion, I think so. Like Hindus go to god directly and have a one-to-one relationship with god. So, I would think the Holy Spirit can talk through christians without the bible. If god is everywhere and spirit, I'd assume he would not be dependent on things to define him.

I think a lot of people who are into dogma and rules, have no experiences of faith. So, they believe largely out of fear, sadly.

I disagree. That's like saying I never had experiences in faith because I value dogma and rules as a former Catholic. I just don't think dogma and rules in any denomination, JW for example, is for everyone. We learn about god (or so have you) in multiple ways. When you look outside the bible and talk to god directly, you may find a way to communicate with him that works for both of you and not the people and their opinions.

 

[Deidre]

Actually, I honestly don't feel the bible is thee book; and, to those who believe so (like how you see people in dogma), I see people idolizing the bible rather than living it through action and devotion. How you feel about dogma, I feel about the bible. Dogma and rules (if one likes) structures how one praises god so they won't go running around thinking god accepts everything they do. Not everyone can follow a structure-it's not wrong just who they are doesn't click with that type of discipline.

Depending on the bible more than devotion or in place of devotion is pure idolism. When you go .....

hold a sec ima finish my thought...

Ahhh, yes, well said. ''Idolizing the Bible'' ...that's very true.

 

[Sha'irullah]

To me one of the beauties of religion is the mythology itself and its meaning. The Bible has lost much of this and resorted to esoteric fables that exceed any practical comprehension. This has been my massive gripe with it and also what led me toward Islam eventually. Ironically what makes Islam more valid is its lack of significant miracles and not an abundance thereof.

The belief in the actually events of the Bible is incredibly dangerous and makes the religion highly invalid. You would be astonished by how ancient cultures did not have a concept of fiction or nonfiction though. Many African tribes hold this view still which is why they have all sorts of spirits and other beings in their beliefs. It is a mere lack of skepticism and critical thinking obviously.

This does not change the meaning of the mythos though.

 

[Rival]

The problem I have with Romans, is that sometimes it feels like Paul is glorifying himself as he attempts to give the glory to Jesus. I've always, always felt that way, even when I was really strong in the faith.

When I was a Christian I felt exactly the same. I outright disliked Paul. You are not alone; I think there are secretly many Christians who feel the same. The Apostles, for a start, when they had their argument with Paul that he was teaching false things and Paul's argument with Peter say it all.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Jesus without His rules is not Jesus.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@Deidre, do you just feel good religion or to be challenged, to grow, to struggle and grapple with things, to develop discipline?

 

[Deidre]

@Deidre, do you just feel good religion or to be challenged, to grow, to struggle and grapple with things, to develop discipline?

I would say both, but life brings struggles and I view religions/beliefs as ways to cope and grow from the struggles if that makes sense? Edit to add, I'm not really seeking one religion to hang onto, but there are faiths/beliefs/religions that have a great many things that are helpful and bring value to my life.

 

[Deidre]

Jesus without His rules is not Jesus.

That's not what is meant by baggage, I don't think?

 

[Magus]

For Jesus without baggage, read the Gospel of Thomas, this was most likely the real 'Jesus' ( not his real name ), He was likely a wandering philosopher, very likely a Zoroastrian, He was not the Son of God, never crucified or resurrected and never preached Hell fire and he most likely died of old age .
Gospel of Thomas (Lambdin Translation) -- The Nag Hammadi Library

 

[Deidre]

For Jesus without baggage, read the Gospel of Thomas, this was most likely the real 'Jesus' ( not his real name ), He was likely a wandering philosopher, very likely a Zoroastrian, He was not the Son of God, never crucified or resurrected and never preached Hell fire and he most likely died of old age .
Gospel of Thomas (Lambdin Translation) -- The Nag Hammadi Library

There's been dispute that this wasn't really 'written' by the Apostle Thomas, what do you think? This is what I mean by the corruption of men when it came to what was to be a part of the Bible and what wasn't. Thomas and John were always my favorites. lol