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Featured Jesus wasn't 'physically' circumcised...the Early Church teaching against physical circumcision

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Desert Snake, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Colossians 2:11 is speaking of a different "circumcison" of Christ than the one on His eighth day. This circumcision is the death of Jesus who put sin to death in His flesh and rose from the dead. so also in Jesus we are buried with Him in baptism. That is our sinful flesh is buried: we are also raised with Him. This means we have been separated from the flesh. Or in other words circumcised. the circumcision of Christ that we are to partake of is the crucifixion and resurrection power. See the context of the verse.
     
  2. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    This is your 'interpretation'. I'm going with what the verse directly says, and Early Church traditional teaching. The 'context' is told directly, you don't have to 'interpret', something else.
     
  3. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    You're minding earthly things and not discerning what the Spirit has to say in the verse. The scriptures are spiritual and spiritually discerned.

    Didn't Jesus say the words I speak are Spirit and they are life?

    Besides that, I'm not sure why this is such an important topic for you anyway? What does all this entail to you? Help me understand the significance of this to your walk with God.
     
  4. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    The verses are clear. Your interpretation of them might be earthly who knows, however there is no reason to 'interpret', anything else besides what they state, plainly.
     
  5. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, so that was after the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

    It seems you have no clue or idea, that while Jesus was here on earth, Jesus obeyed Gods law just like anyone else.

    So according to you, everyone else was to keep God's law, all except Jesus.
    But yet Jesus said in John 15:10--
    "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love"

    So therefore this includes Jesus keeping God the Fathers law.

    Had you read Matthew 5:17--"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil"

    How else was Jesus to fulfil the law, If not keeping the law himself.
    Jesus fulfilled the law, by keeping the law of God the Fathers himself.
     
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Yes I do, seeing all religious, traditional teachings are man made and Jesus condemned the teachings and doctrines of man's in Matthew 15:7-9

    7--" You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

    8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

    9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

    So there you have Jesus condemning the teachings and doctrines of man's.
     
  7. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    The ex'Pharisee learned scholar, the Apostle Paul, apparently did not attend your church.

    The 'Covenant of uncircumcision', is the Covenant of Abraham, and Isaac, in the text.

    So, the Covenant of Abraham, isn't G-ds law?

    You seem to have no idea, what you're talking about.
     
  8. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Seeing that you no clue or idea, about circumcision.
    In the book of Luke you'll find Jesus being circumcised on the 8th day.

    Luke 2:21--"And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb"

    Therefore on the 8th day Jesus was circumcised.

    Maybe you should do some research and studying.
     
  9. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    It was God who gave Abraham the law of circumcision.
    So you can not call the law circumcision the law of Abraham, seeing the law of circumcision came from God.
    In the book of Genesis 17:9-14--


    9--"And I God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

    10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

    11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

    12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

    13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

    14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant"

    Genesis 21:4--"And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him"

    Therefore the law of circumcision came from God to Abraham.
     
    #69 Faithofchristian, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  10. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    No... not according to the Apostles, including Paul, an ex'Pharisee.
    Read Acts of the Apostles
    And Galatians.
    The Apostles, [we'll call them early Christians, did not believe that all of the "mosaic" law was actually from Moses, but further, they clearly believed that circumcision was from the Mosaic law
    Galatians 3:6-7
    Galatians 3:10
    Galatians 3:15
    Galatians 3:18
    Galatians 3:19

    Which Paul called the 'added law'. [Added after the Covenant unto Abraham as Paul says.
    When the jewish and common christian bibles were canonized later, they included the Abraham circumcision narrative. Clearly the Apostles did not believe that part of what is in most modern bibles, as it would contradict much of Scripture, important Covenantal belief
     
    #70 Desert Snake, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  11. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Well seeing that you only go about cherry picking verses.
    Have it ever occurred to you to read the whole chapter to find out for sure what the subject and article is about first.

    But seeing you only pick out certain verses to try and support what your trying to say doesn't work.

    As for Galatians 3:6-7. Here we find Abraham believed God, So God had Abraham circumcised himself in a show of faith in God.
    So circumcision came from God to Abraham.
    Seeing that you have no clue or idea what the works of the law are.
    That are written down in the book of the law.
    Maybe you should study to find out what the works of the law are, that are written down in the book of the law first.

    As for Galatians 3:15--" Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto"

    Therefore not even Jesus could disannull the law of circumcision, so that means Jesus himself had to be circumcised himself.

    Now as for Galatians 3:18-19--"
    18--"For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise"

    Therefore God gave to Abraham the law of circumcision.

    19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator"

    The law of circumcision was added because of transgressions,
    Till the seed ( Jesus Christ) should come.
    For Christ Jesus himself fulfilled the law of circumcision by being circumcised himself.

    Maybe before you go about cherry picking verses you should try starting at the beginning of the chapter and find out what the subject and article is about first.
     
  12. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Completely wrong. Do you even know the general stories in the Bible? The 'added' laws were what we know of as the 'Mosaic laws', generally. Not the Covenant unto Abraham.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Well that's evidence that you haven't a clue or idea what your talking about.
     
  14. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    It's like you've never read any of the Bible at all...
    Galatians 3:17
    [Means the added laws, which the Apostles include circumcision as one of the added laws, can't make the Abrahamic Covenant, to no affect
    Galatians 3:18
    [The law isn't the Covenant
    Galatians 3:19
    [Referring to the Mosaic laws, or actually the 'added law', as what is meant by laws of Moses, meant differently to the Apostles, reference Acts of the Apostles
    Galatians 4:23-26
    [Laws from Sinai, (note the early Christians believed differently about how and what laws were actually direct from Moses,, are different from Abrahamic Covenant, a mystical association between Sinai , Mosaic laws, as opposed to Jerusalem, Abrahamic Covenant
     
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