Jesus Was Muhammad?

[Ezzedean]

I don't know how you can compare Jesus Mohamad or Guatema Sidhartha (Buddha).

1 Jesus never existed.
2 Mohammad was a sociopath.

The Buddha is about the only one I have any respect for. His teachings were concise and very sophisticated.

sociopath
so-ci-o-path

a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

Maybe you should check these out choirboy....


Do you know him?
http://www.geocities.com/baron_night...ps#256,1,Slide 1


Learn about Mohammed
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=28808

I don't know what you think about Ghandi... but he seemed to think pretty highly of the man you call a sociopath. You've pointed out people getting uptight at someone testing their faith. In no way do I have a problem with someone testing my faith, but it's all in how you do it. It's one thing to disbelive and prove your points (which you haven't done just yet) and it's a whole other to make comments like "Jesus didn't exist", "Muhammed was a sociopath"... how about you prove your statements and show us WHY you think these things. I don't doubt that you have a reason, and i'm sure they're interesting... so let's see them. Ya know what I mean? Check out those links... whether you believe or not you will probobly learn something you didn't know before.

As for the actual topic. No, I don't think that Jesus was Muhammed or Buddha.... I do believe that he will return, but I believe when he does return that it will be as Jesus and not another person/name. Definately an interesting concept, and I believe it's something close to what the Bahai faith believes, but I'm not a 100% percent on that one.

Peace and Blessings

 

[nutshell]

There's no scriptural support? Mmm, no but isn't there similarity in the effect they had on people's religious beliefs? They all bring people (some people) closer to God.

Many people have brought others closer to God, but that doesn't mean they're the same. I'm thinking of more modern examples such as Billy Graham, Joseph Smith, the Dalai Lama, and others.

Maybe some of the different twists that you refer to are cultural interpretations?

I agree with you that Jesus would not preach forgiveness then lead an army but, if this was so, when Jesus was Muhammad He would not be Jesus. Who would you be if you did not remember everything before now? It took Jesus thirty years to realize that He was the Son of God.

If Jesus was Muhammad, he would not be Jesus - that's right and that's because they are not the same person or being, IMO. Also, I believe there is scriptural support to show Jesus knew he was the Son of God much earlier than 30. I'm thinking of when he was in the temple as a boy. The Joseph Smith translation says Jesus was teaching the priests as a boy, not the other way around.

I don't believe that Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddah were the same being but I think it's an interesting idea.

It is interesting. Thanks for the thread.

 

[choirboy]

What evidence do you have that Mohammad fits your definition of sociopath?

Someone who kills, rapes and uses fear to control people would be an example of a sociopath.

There are a number of examples littered through out the Koran of Mohammad murdering and raping.

Rape of non-believers and slaves.
Koran 4:24
"And all married women are forbidden unto you EXCEPT those captives whom your right hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery..."

Mohamad condoned the murdering of people on many ocassions. Especially women who criticised him.
Marriage to a 6 year old A'isha (paedofilia).
The punishment of apostacy in islam is death.
Beating of women as a form of inter marital conflict resolution.
Creating laws such as Stoning to death for adultery.

This is why I believe Mohamad was a sociopath.

Of course there are many islamic apologist who will say that I am mis-infomed and they'll shove a list of apologist links in my face. But I've never been convinced.

 

[choirboy]

Ok the main difference I see between Buddha and Jesus (apart from the fact Buddha definately existed ) is that the Buddha had a well thought out philosophy about suffering and how to remove it or reach enlightenment. Christianity doesn't but has the same sort of aim which is heaven not enlightenment. As an ex buddhist I see this as being pretty much the same thing.

Most religions define what is morally acceptable and what is not by saying they are the will of god but buddhists relate morality directly to the experience of suffering. ie do not course suffering. I've always thought this to pretty cool way to handle ethics or at least a v good attempt.

Suffering itself is related to the having of desires. Desires create attachments and desires can never be satisfied. So in buddhism adherents follow the 8 fold path which is about following a good moral life (and other things). Much in the same way christians and muslims follow the commandments.

Ultimately by doing this and removing your attachments and other things you will experience non-duality where all is one, not one etc and all is love because everything is different and the same. buddha seperated this understanding of the religious experience from any form of faith ie buddhism maintains that you can reach enlightenment through any faith. But Islam and christianity both maintain they are the only way to experience this.

 

[Ezzedean]

Someone who kills, rapes and uses fear to control people would be an example of a sociopath.

There are a number of examples littered through out the Koran of Mohammad murdering and raping.

Rape of non-believers and slaves.
Koran 4:24
"And all married women are forbidden unto you EXCEPT those captives whom your right hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery..."

4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

I would love for you to explain to me where this verse tells us to rape non-believers and slaves? I've never heard that one before choirboy... I look forward to your explanation.

Mohamad condoned the murdering of people on many ocassions. Especially women who criticised him.

Show me the proof of "especially the women who criticized him." Would you fight for your beliefs Choirboy? If you were a prophet of God and were receiving revelation from Him, would you do as He said or would you go against His will? I highly doubt you would.

Marriage to a 6 year old

A'isha (paedofilia).

Didn't consumate the marriage until she was of age. Mary was twelve when she gave birth to Jesus. It was the norm at the time. Aisha was actually set to marry someone who was gonna use her as a slave, and Muhammed stopped that from happening... and then Aisha turned out to be the most influencial and one of the most important women ever.

The punishment of apostacy in islam is death.

Well if Islam is the true way, then Muhammed did those people a huge favor wouldn't you say? Instead of them continuing to live a life of false belief and misguided teachings they were instead removed from dunya (life on earth) and was confronted with the truth, not only did they then know the truth, but they were no longer able to sin anymore than they would have. They were used as an example, and I'm sure God will reward them for that. You might think I'm crazy for saying that, but IF Islam is the true way (which I believe it is) the good outweighs the bad. Yes they may be gone, but they are away from the burdens of earth... the temptations and difficulties of life.

Beating of women as a form of inter marital conflict resolution.

No women is aloud to be harmed within Islam... can't hit them with anything bigger than your thumb, and it's only to get their attention... CAN NOT BE HARMED. By the way, men have to do everything for the women.... clothes on their back, food on the table, gifts, protect... even if the women makes more money than the man, she has every right to do whatever she wants with her money and the man still has to provide. Lucky them.

Creating laws such as Stoning to death for adultery.

I take it you think Moses was a sociopath also then? Once a cheater always a cheater... it's one of the ten commandments my friend. So are you trying to say you wanna get away with cheating on your wife? So you can do it over and over again? You're right.. we should all be aloud to cheat and screw around behind our wives backs. Nothing is more disgusting and shameful and cowardly than doing such a thing. Now I wouldn't kill anyone for doing it, but those people were used as an example at the time for us to understand the severity of doing such a horrible thing to eachother... like I said above, they were done a favor. You probobly don't like that answer.. but no need to beat around the bush.

This is why I believe Mohamad was a sociopath.

You believe in what you believe in. Did you check out those links I left for you? Or did you not even bother? Are all those known and respected leaders and teachers misguided as to who Muhammed was? Should they have had a lesson from choirboy to know who the "true" Muhammed was?

Of course there are many islamic apologist who will say that I am mis-infomed and they'll shove a list of apologist links in my face. But I've never been convinced.

What makes you think that you've got it all right? I might have it wrong, but so could you. I think of the history of Muhammed, what he did, how Islam came to be and the influence he had on everyone discredits a lot of what people said about him. At the time of Muhammed and the rise of Islam, no one would criticize the religion itself but they would make claims and attacks towards Muhammed, and he would always be calm and cool with such things. They would ask Muhammed "Why do you stay so calm when they say such lies about you?" and his response was "When they say these things about me, and attack me with lies and insults, it shows me that we are winning." So you can sing your song all day choirboy, but you might find out you've been singing to Gods beat.

Peace and Blessings.

 

[cardero]

How about this for a theory, Jesus is the Son of God who bestows upon the earth at various intervals to teach us.

Christians believe that He will one day return but what if He has been here many times already?

Could Jesus have been Buddha?

Then Christ?

Then Muhammad?

Very rarely do entities incarnate with the same purpose in mind. When entities incarnate into a physical existence they usually prefer to go for different experiences though I suppose the unfulfilled purpose is not unheard of but I shoud ask you this: Wouldn't incarnating into all those spiritual leaders just breed confusion and separation in different cultures? Who knows maybe for some entities this may be a valid purpose.

 

[Booko]

mmm more rudeness.

Yes but heres the difference. You can go and look at historical records and find out if your ancestors existed. Similar records existed in roman times. None of them refer to Jesus and theres no record of his deeds in any of the histories. There are some obvious forgeries.

The evidence for his existance is not even scant its non existant.

That's an interesting perspective on rudeness.

I simply pointed out what your logic looked like if applied to a different situation.

Unfortunately, you chose not to make any meaningful response to show how the logic was off.

Now, I can't go back 2000 years and find any record of my ancestors. I can't even go back 150 years and find any record of some of my ancestors.

Or were you unaware that Native Americans didn't keep records?

Oh, but they did exist.

There's the flaw in your logic.

If you call pointing out flaws in logic rudeness, well, that's just...fascinating.

 

[Booko]

And when He returns do you think He will use His old name and speak the same old things?

If Revelation is to be believed, He will not.

 

[Booko]

Any way for sake of discussion. Lets assume Jesus, Buddha and Mohammad existed and were all sane....( I obviously can't make the comment that Jesus did'nt exist without the christians getting incredibally upset, rude and up tight.)

a. I am not a Christian.
b. Pointing out the illogic in an argument is not rude or uptight.

My dear, I would've nailed you on that bit of illogic were I still an atheist. An atheistic stance does not give anyone a bye on syllogistic silliness.

 

[Booko]

I realise that it takes a lot to show people that they are misguided especially when it comes to religion. People believe things more for philosophical reasons than on a appraisal of the evidence. So I'm not trying to convert anyone to my views.

You don't know what I believe. You didn't even bother to notice that I'm not a Christian. Neither have you addressed your illogic.

I am amazed at the defenders of the faith though and the amount of anger they show .

I hope you will eventually address your illogic regarding the idea that people do not exist if there are no records of them with the same vigor you're using to do your armchair psychoanalysis of people you don't know.

 

[Booko]

Someone who kills, rapes and uses fear to control people would be an example of a sociopath.

There are a number of examples littered through out the Koran of Mohammad murdering and raping.

Rape of non-believers and slaves.
Koran 4:24
"And all married women are forbidden unto you EXCEPT those captives whom your right hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery..."

Mohamad condoned the murdering of people on many ocassions. Especially women who criticised him.
Marriage to a 6 year old A'isha (paedofilia).
The punishment of apostacy in islam is death.
Beating of women as a form of inter marital conflict resolution.
Creating laws such as Stoning to death for adultery.

This is why I believe Mohamad was a sociopath.

Of course there are many islamic apologist who will say that I am mis-infomed and they'll shove a list of apologist links in my face. But I've never been convinced.

Yes, well, we wouldn't want to confuse you with any facts, say, from scholarly non-Muslim sources.

 

[Super Universe]

Very rarely do entities incarnate with the same purpose in mind. When entities incarnate into a physical existence they usually prefer to go for different experiences though I suppose the unfulfilled purpose is not unheard of but I shoud ask you this: Wouldn't incarnating into all those spiritual leaders just breed confusion and separation in different cultures? Who knows maybe for some entities this may be a valid purpose.

I believe you are correct, entities (I'm curious why you selected this specific word?) incarnate for life experiences. Jesus was required to have a number of life experiences before He could assume His role as leader and judge for the sentient beings in this area of the universe.

Wouldn't incarnating into all those spiritual leaders just breed confusion? Isn't that what we have now?

Don't people believe that all the major world religions are completely different?

If any two religions truly recieved revelation from a representative of God then there should be no differences whatsoever between them unless God has changed or human's changed the revelation.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

*** MOD POST ***​

Several posts on this thread have been deleted for being off topic and Rule 4 violations. Here is a link to the forum rules. Got a question? Hit the PM button and ask a mod, but DO NOT bring it on the forum.

Two simple ideas for the future of this thread:

• Keep posts ON the topic
• Keep the commentary OFF the person to whom you are responding.

Here is the OP to refresh everyone's memory.

How about this for a theory, Jesus is the Son of God who bestows upon the earth at various intervals to teach us.

Christians believe that He will one day return but what if He has been here many times already?

Could Jesus have been Buddha?

Then Christ?

Then Muhammad?

 

[Islam]

Mohammed couldnt be Christ (peace be upon them) especially since Mohammed (p.b.uh) said that jesus will return b4 the end of the world.. so if it was him why would he say that?

 

[Super Universe]

Mohammed couldnt be Christ (peace be upon them) especially since Mohammed (p.b.uh) said that jesus will return b4 the end of the world.. so if it was him why would he say that?

Don't you wonder how he knew that?

 

[Random]

Hindu's accept the idea many incarnations of God, throughout time.

There are many similarities between Christ and Buddha, but virtually none IMO with Mohammed. They were all mortal men, believe me.

Jesus claimed God's nature was resident in Man, and so did not distinguish between Himself and the Father, or the Holy Spirit that bound them. Buddha's limited definition of gods as mortal entities extant on another Samsaric plane made it logical for him not to claim to be one.

Mohammed was a violent Arabic revolutionary, whose interest was social cohesion and his peoples identity as the greater Semitic chosen of God. Which is not to knock him, just to say that he wasn't the deepest of thinkers nor a pillar of wisdom by any stretch of the imagination, though I respect Muslims who regard him as such.

Identifying all three as incarnations of God is disingenuous though. They were, at best, prophetic visionaries.

 

[Islam]

ummm because he was a prophet of God and so God reveals stuff to him that still didnt happen through Gabriel. Prophet Mohammed said that Judgment day wont happen until Jesus returns.. He said many other things also many of them came true for ex seeing another place while ur at the same place (tv) the metal speaking (radio) leaving the hourses and camels and using stuff like moving houses to move around (cars) etc..

 

[Islam]

Mohammed peace be upon him was not violent he even forbade the killing of PLANTS EVEN IN THE MIDDLE OF WAR

 

[cardero]

Super Universe writes: I believe you are correct, entities (I'm curious why you selected this specific word?) incarnate for life experiences. Jesus was required to have a number of life experiences before He could assume His role as leader and judge for the sentient beings in this area of the universe.

I use the word entities because when it comes to incarnating into a physical existence there are several choices a spirit can incarnate into (human, animal, plant, even other existences) and I didn’t want to limit individuals by thinking that people who died a physical existence can only incarnate into another earthly human shell.

Super Universe writes: Wouldn't incarnating into all those spiritual leaders just breed confusion? Isn't that what we have now?

Yes but it would be interesting if this was a entity’s intent to breed confusion or if a religious prophet incarnates again if only to get it “right” (read:fulfilled). Also a lot of confusion seems to originate with personal interpretation.

Super Universe writes: Don't people believe that all the major world religions are completely different?

Yes but what many people do not realize is that we are all in this existence together and that we share more in common than just what we believe.

Super Universe writes: If any two religions truly recieved revelation from a representative of God then there should be no differences whatsoever between them unless God has changed or human's changed the revelation.

I do not believe that GOD has changed (much) but I also believe that many people do not understand GOD accurately. They prefer to believe that GOD is a mystery, that he is unattainable, unknowable except to a “chosen” few. Pride and stubbornness usually prevent people from seeing the commonalities that religions have in common for a more favored position of intolerance, segregation and keeping their rites and traditions “sacred”.

 

[choirboy]

Hindu's accept the idea many incarnations of God, throughout time.

There are many similarities between Christ and Buddha, but virtually none IMO with Mohammed. They were all mortal men, believe me.

Jesus claimed God's nature was resident in Man, and so did not distinguish between Himself and the Father, or the Holy Spirit that bound them. Buddha's limited definition of gods as mortal entities extant on another Samsaric plane made it logical for him not to claim to be one.

I agree.
Buddha also taught Karma which is seen as a natural law of morality. I suppose god is pretty much the same in this case with his heaven and hell.

I always saw karma as related to your own psychological development. If you were enlightened and killed someone you wouldn't suffer bad karma. But then if you were enlightened you wouldn't kill some one anyway. Then again if ignorant of what you were doing you wouldn't suffer as much either. Karma is the product of a twisted mind I guess so the karmic punishment keeps in mind the context.
With god you have the idea of compassion and mercy which tempers punishment I guess and puts it in a context.

Also its important to realise that
Buddha lived 81 years and preached about 48 of them.
Jesus didn't live very long as a preacher matter of weeks I think.