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Featured Jesus vs the New Testament

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Disciple of Jesus, Mar 10, 2019.

?

New testament representative of Jesus?

This poll will close on Jun 18, 2019 at 1:13 PM.
  1. Yes

    66.7%
  2. No

    13.3%
  3. Somewhat, more representative

    13.3%
  4. Somewhat, less representative

    20.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Ok. That makes sense. Thanks.
     
  2. Jane.Doe

    Jane.Doe Active Member

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    That is a GROSS misrepresentation of both Islam and beliefs of LDS Christians.
     
  3. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I've pointed that out to PruePhillip before, but it just continues to fall upon deaf ears. I'm still waiting to hear about all of the Old Testament "special days and months" we observe and where the New Testament forbids us to have a tabernacle. Claims without evidence are pretty meaningless.
     
  4. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Do you accept Christmas (Jesus' birthday) and Easter (Jesus death
    and resurrection) as worth honoring?
     
  5. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Take the temple as a simple and quick point.
    God gave the people the Tabernacle in the wilderness,
    and the ark of God's Covenant with the people.
    God did not ask for a temple, anymore than he asked
    for a King of Israel - but both were granted to the Jews.
    Jesus said that "God does not dwell in temples made
    with hands." Jesus gave no instruction for any Christian
    temple, rather he said that his people were the temple
    of the living God.
    No single thing changed what some call Christianity
    more than the introduction of temples. God was now in
    the temple (and you could leave him there.) And now
    there was a class of officials caring for the temple, and
    taxing people. With this came temporal powers, idols
    and a new class of non-itinerant ministers.
    The Christian temple became the "earthly sanctuary"
    warned about in Romans and Hebrews. The temple
    in short was a symbol, like the Passover lamb, the
    sacred ground, the holy day, the priest etc that was
    done away with Christ.

    Thus Christ isn't our high priest, the Archbishop or
    Pope now is. Now the sacred center of your life isn't
    your heart but in the worldly temple. Now the ministers
    without a home and church in the home is totally
    reversed - without commandment, example or
    permission from the bible.
     
    #245 PruePhillip, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  6. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Of course. Why wouldn't we?
     
  7. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    It is the overwhelming majority position of the cults, taken aggregately, that since THEY are the chosen people/race/leaders, they replace Israel and where the Bible is simple, explicit, literal (X from Y tribe), matching OT verses that are similar, in a book consumed with Israel's position and judgment in the End Times... no GENTILE Christian can say they are from the JEWISH tribe of such and such... no. THAT is a part/problem of replacement theology.
     
  8. Jane.Doe

    Jane.Doe Active Member

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    This is a complete straw man argument: you're disagreeing with a stance nobody is actually making.
    From my conversations with him/her, I'm inclined to agree.
     
  9. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    You know, it doesn't really bug me that much when someone tells me that my beliefs are in error. But what I really find annoying is when someone tries to tell me what I believe. :rolleyes:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Solomon's temple was a copy of a larger temple at Byblos. I think it was probably just vanity. They wanted a Temple and a King,
     
  11. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Like all things it's complicated. The King and Temple did serve symbolic
    uses. Thus in Judaeo and Christian liturgy the temple is figurative (only)
    of God's house. And the monarchy is figurative of God's authority and the
    Messiah.
    Thus David as King represents two icons - the rejected King (Jesus as
    Messiah) and the reigning King (Jesus as Lord.)
    But no temple was to be built by Christians. Jesus said God doesn't
    dwell in "temples made with hands" and Romans and Hebrews speaks
    of those who have "no right" to enter the presence of God if they serve
    at a worldly sanctuary - YOU must be the sanctuary.

    Interestingly, in Revelation it speaks of the fall of false religion, and it
    mentions this physical sanctuary which didn't exist in John's day.
    "No more the candle, no more the voice of bride and bridgegroom, but
    a cage of every hateful and unclean bird." or words to that effect. Call it
    another prophecy if you like.
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    John says there is no temple. What does revelation say about the fall of religion?

    Like ancient Babylon, Jerusalem fell having been overcome to a large part by the passage of its enemies across the Euphrates.(the Roman garrison of Vespasian)

    First century Jerusalem was itself a symbol of the Law of Moses and the old covenant system.

    23
    And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
     
  13. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you are getting at. It's complex but there were things God did not
    want in the Jewish people, including the need for the Law (ie commandments)
    a temple, divorce and a monarchy.
    The church was David's idea, the monarchy was Israel's idea, the law was (if
    you will receive it) God's idea after the people rebelled.

    Not sure about this Euphrates crossing but. Some of the Legions just came
    from Syria down through Galilee. Maybe. Some came from Egypt and some
    were already garrisoned in Israel.
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    You're right.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I learned something too. Never looked at a map of the Euphrates
    since I was in school. Didn't know it was a Syrian river.
     
  16. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Where did I say that anything that rejected the Talmud was anything but a heresy? Give a link to my post where I said such a thing.

    It's like the Trinity and Christianity. Arianism is considered a heresy. It was ruled a heresy at the council of Nicea. Is Arianism Christianity? Some would call it a Christian heresy. Some would say it is not even Christianity. The point is, everyone agrees that it is a heresy (except, of course, the heretics).
     
  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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  18. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    When I say Judaism, I include Jesus among its adherants. Judaism adjusts over time, but certain things are constant. For example, Jesus absolutely accepted the Oral Torah which is what the Karaites (and Sadducees) reject. Both born Jews and converts agree on this.

    My posts are not a confused mess. I'm sure other Jews would have their own take on things. You are welcome to ask them their own views. But I've certainly presented a rational understanding of things.
     
  19. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    There is no such religion as "Judaic." Judaic is an adjective that means "of the Jews.
     
  20. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I called it what it is called. Not everything called Judaism is actually Judaism. Case in point we have Messianic Judaism, which is a religion formed by apostates, and is in no way a part of Judaism. It is a syncretic religion that mixes itself up with Christianity. It can call itself Judaism all it wants--it still isn't. IMHO, Karaite Judaism is also not Judaism.

    To be fair, there are Jews who would say that technically a Jewish heresy falls within the confines of Judaism. BUT it is STILL a HERESY.
     
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