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Featured Jesus vs the New Testament

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Disciple of Jesus, Mar 10, 2019.

?

New testament representative of Jesus?

This poll will close on Jun 18, 2019 at 1:13 PM.
  1. Yes

    66.7%
  2. No

    13.3%
  3. Somewhat, more representative

    13.3%
  4. Somewhat, less representative

    20.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    You just called it Judaism.

    Then, you say it isn't Judaism. Make up your mind.
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Ketuvim just means "Writings" or "Hagiographa" doesn't it?

    What are you trying to prove about 2nd Temple Judaism?
     
  3. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Was it around in Jesus day?

    Karaite Jews do not accept as binding the written collections of the oral tradition in the Midrash or Malmud.
     
  4. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    No, it's more that, Jesus religion is Judaic, yet not what is normally in arguments and such, the same as 'Judaism', meaning Rabbinical Judaism. The context is when the argument is made that these are just writings, not prophecy, so forth. More so, if said to be entirely made up, an academic claim, which we did encounter in the Messiah discussion.

    I would say, yes.
    I believe it's Acts of the Apostles, 'Jews from all over', and the inference is that there is variation. We get direct inference anyway, because of Essenes, Jesus's practice, so forth.

    The Jewish Bible and the Xian Bible were canonized later, in fact book of Galatians seems to contradict a portion of Genesis 17, so there's that.
     
  5. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    It's all the same in Jesus religion. Not 'writings', in other words.

    Contextually usually the prophecy, however just generally.
     
  6. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Just quickly, without looking anything up. Shiloh I suppose
    became a location 500 years after Jacob. A cultic place.
    Many names are given to the Messiah, ie The Branch,
    The Word, Micheal, the Prince, Zerababel, Emmanuel...
    Different translations of this Shiloh business give terms
    such as "he to whom" or "Messiah" - the identifier is that
    he should come when Israel is finished, and in him the
    Gentiles will trust.
     
  7. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Oh I know its a place, but where does it identify a person?
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Rabbinic Judaism, the form of Judaism that developed after the fall of the Temple of Jerusalem (ad 70). Originated in the work of the Pharisee rabbis, it was based on the legal and commentative literature in the Talmud.
     
  9. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    Huh? The cults, we can name which cults if desired, say THEY are the 144,000, not literal Jewish people.
     
  10. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so much a dabbler as I am a Messianic Jew. I was circumcised at home on the eighth day after my birth and was Bar Mitzvah at arguably America's most prominent synagogue. If you're a Gentile, I'd be shocked to have you believe you understand Judaism more profoundly than I. Just last month, I was discussing replacement theology with Jews and Gentiles--in Israel--where I was helping lead a tour group.

    Replacement theology, in short, replaces the Jews and their Bible blessings with others. The 144,000 of Revelation 7 are Jews. I apologize if I misunderstood you to say differently.
     
  11. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    If being Jewish is wrapped with the idea of works to please God and my circumcision, and being Christian has to do with the unconditional love and grace of Jesus, you may call me Christian, but try to learn something more either of Judaism or Christianity from me before you are so dismissive (and RUDE).
     
  12. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    I agree that a 'group' estimation, like that, tends to cult or just incorrect interpretation. That being said, it's just " from the tribe of", so, as I interpret this, it's an individualized thing, and there is really no way of telling this.

    So on an individual basis, a christian might say, 'im one of those listed, im from the tribe of such and such'.

    And, that's their belief, so that is what it is, a personal belief.
     
  13. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    Book of Revelation is really symbolic, I'm not personally saying anything there is completely literal. We're getting into interpretation, in other words. we know it doesn't say, 'this religious group', though.
     
  14. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    Not my definitions, however regardless.


    Also the Epistles make it quite clear that the Church of God, that's the Biblical church, doesn't make distinctions like that.

    Nor would I make that sort of distinction, completely foreign to my beliefs.
     
    #234 Disciple of Jesus, Mar 13, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  15. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    What we know of as Judaism is not the same thing as practiced in ancient Palestine. Following the destruction of the temple in 70 c.e., the ancient religion died out and was replaced, eventually becoming the Judaism we know today.
     
  16. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    Im not interested in arguing with Rabbinic Jews, whether they were practicing the same religion, which is different from Jesus Religion, in the time of Jesus.
     
  17. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    How do you know it was different from “Jesus religion?” Jesus may, indeed, have been a practitioner of the ancient Judaic religion. The gospels allude to that fact.
     
  18. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    Didn't say it was.
     
  19. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Look at what I quoted from you in post #237. You most certainly do say it was different. That was the whole reason I responded.
     
  20. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    Jesus religion=Judaic
    Judaism in time of Jesus=varies
    Rabbinical Judaism, now=not Jesus religion
     
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