Jesus vs. Nietzsche

[Shadow Wolf]

Defaming the prophecies and my abundant explanation of them isn't a counter-factual.

You can, any way you like, demonstrate how, for example, Israel DID NOT become a nation in one day as prophesied, and in 1948 CE!

People have long said "this event and that event, combined with this math I did, prove the world is ending." But they have all failed, and yours looks no different.

 

[syo]

a debate between Jesus and Nietzsche

Jesus said 'love'. What did Nietzsche say?

 

[BilliardsBall]

You are aware that the authors of the New Testament knew these Old Testament "prophecies", correct? It is quite easy to write a book that fulfills "prophecy" but the only way that you can conclude these are fulfilled prophecies is if you assume the New Testament is true.

You are aware that the OT/NT was written long before Israel fulfilled 60 prophecies beginning in 1948 CE, correct?

 

[BilliardsBall]

People have long said "this event and that event, combined with this math I did, prove the world is ending." But they have all failed, and yours looks no different.

I didn't say, "predicted the end of this world," I said, "Predicted Israel would be a nation in 1948 CE," an event that OCCURRED. Israel has since fulfilled 60 additional Bible prophecies--you are denying newspaper accounts and living memory now!

 

[night912]

Jesus said 'love'. What did Nietzsche say?

Love.

We love life, not because we are used to living but because we are used to loving. - Nietzsche

Love forgives the lover even his lust. - Nietzsche

The spiritualization of sensuality is called love: it is a great triumph over Christianity.- Nietzsche

The demand to be loved is the greatest of all arrogant presumptions. - Nietzsche

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I didn't say, "predicted the end of this world," I said, "Predicted Israel would be a nation in 1948 CE," an event that OCCURRED. Israel has since fulfilled 60 additional Bible prophecies--you are denying newspaper accounts and living memory now!

Im not denying the events happened, I'm denying your mathematical gymnastics have any significance. It's like the movie The Number 23, which is a pretty cheesy concept because anyone who paid attention to their high school math classes can make any set of numbers equal 23 (good movie as far as proving Jim Carry is actually a really good actor though).

 

[BilliardsBall]

Im not denying the events happened, I'm denying your mathematical gymnastics have any significance. It's like the movie The Number 23, which is a pretty cheesy concept because anyone who paid attention to their high school math classes can make any set of numbers equal 23 (good movie as far as proving Jim Carry is actually a really good actor though).

I don't follow. The "events that happened" were:

1) Israel's time, manner, methodology, etc. of revival were predicted millennia ago
2) They happened to the DAY as predicted
3) The starting date is confirmed in archaeology
4) The actualization date is as near as newspapers of the 20th century

None of the above aligns with a Jim Carrey film.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

You are aware that the OT/NT was written long before Israel fulfilled 60 prophecies beginning in 1948 CE, correct?

You never gave any passages in the bible that even remotely indicated Israel would become a Jewish nation in 1948. Fail.

 

[j1i]

Today I've been daydreaming about a debate between Jesus and Nietzsche. If I could watch any two people in history debate, it would be Jesus Christ and Friederich Nietzsche. Both were extremely arrogant and witty and had polar opposite viewpoints on nearly everything. Can you imagine a debate between these two guys? Their tempers would probably flare constantly. For example (to quote each of them): Nietzsche would say "—Must I add that, in the whole New Testament, there appears but a solitary figure worthy of honour? Pilate, the Roman viceroy." And then Jesus would yell "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!" And Nietzsche would say "This eternal accusation against Christianity I shall write upon all walls, wherever walls are to be found—I have letters that even the blind will be able to see.... I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough,—I call it the one immortal blemish upon the human race...."

Can you imagine the entertainment? I'd pay good money to watch it. Too bad these two never met...

Nietzsche's philosophy is like salt, which will dissolve when he sees the water of Jesus
Jesus is a man who does not curse others easily because he is a man of virtue, compassion, and peace of mind
Jesus will excel with argument and proof
Nietzsche will be ashamed of his actions and enter self-development courses
Nietzsche will live through a period of intellectual shock that will change course to become one of the best psychologists in the world

 

[Shadow Wolf]

2) They happened to the DAY as predicted

Only because of your mathematical gymnastics. They're actually very easy to do, and totally unimpressive to anyone who realizes how easy math makes it to manipulate numbers.

 

[Spartan]

At the end, of the crucifixion, after Jesus' last breath. Nietzsche would stand up and announce, "God is dead".

Then when Nietzsche bellied up, Jesus would say, "Nietzsche is dead!"

Then Jesus would have cast the stiff-necked, Christ-denying fool into Hell.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You never gave any passages in the bible that even remotely indicated Israel would become a Jewish nation in 1948. Fail.

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/pdf/JeffBIBLE-EzekVision2.pdf


Prophecy:

10 Prophecies Fulfilled in 1948

Prophecy Fulfilled: Israel Becomes A Nation In 1948

Some prophecies:

1) The Jews, after rejecting their Messiah, were to be scattered to many nations

2) They would bless each and all of these nations

3) They would be persecuted in each and all of those nations

4) They would inaugurate a Jewish nation again, in 1948 CE!

5) Messiah would return to the Jews

# 4 is fascinating.

After modern Israel was incepted, Christians proclaimed the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, atheists noticed that it was a void prophecy, because…

Ezekiel prophesied a number of years in captivity:

“…As for you [Ezekiel], lie down…for the number of days…three hundred and ninety days (for Israel’s sin)…When you have completed these…I have assigned it to you for forty days (for Judah’s sin)…a day for each year.”—Ezekiel 4:4-6

That's 430 years (biblical years of 360 days each). 70 years of captivity were served in Babylon, leaving 360 years.

Modern atheists noted this... surely the final Jewish diaspora into modern times lasted more than 360 years since the end of the Babylonian captivity! Surely the Bible was wrong:

606 BCE …Judah/Israel taken captive to Babylon

536 BCE …Cyrus allows return to Israel

...360 years later is pre-Roman times in Israel!

Some readers, noticed, however, that Leviticus 26:14-46 says Israel will pay seven times over for disobedience, specifically, in diaspora: "…If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins."

They multiplied 7 times 360 360-day years from the Cyrus decree and in the Gentile calendar this comes out to: Whoa! May 14, 1948 CE! God left it as written to demonstrate it wasn't a self-fulfilled prophecy, and for skeptics to draw it out!


What about coincidence? There are numerous Bible prophecies, these are the sole passages on the God-commanded length of the lengthy diaspora. The coincidence would be millions-to-one. There are similar precise number prophecies relating to other aspects, if you're interested. The date for Christ's crucifixion appears in the Septuagint, which scholars know dates to at least two-and-a-half centuries before Christ.

**

These are some of my notes on the subject.



Is Israel In God’s Plan?



“…As for you [Ezekiel], lie down…for the number of days…three hundred and ninety days (for Israel’s sin)…When you have completed these…I have assigned it to you for forty days (for Judah’s sin)…a day for each year.”—Ezekiel 4:4-6



Did God Err In The Bible?



606 BC …Judah/Israel taken captive to Babylon



536 BC …Cyrus allows return to Israel



…So, only 70 years of 430 fulfilled? (Atheists point out with glee this scripture came up empty)



"Seven Times Punishment"



“…And if by these things [sins] you are not turned to Me, but act with hostility against Me, then I will act with hostility against you; and I, even I, will strike you seven times for your sins.”—Leviticus 23:23-24



Ezekiel “Counts”



70 years of captivity



430 – 70 (captivity) = 360 years left



360 x 7 (times punishment) = 2,520 years



Going from the date in history (recorded in the Bible and outside the Bible also) of the Babylonian diaspora = May 15, 1948 AD! (Israel born in a day by decree of United Nations, this occurred at 12:01 AM or April 15 in Gentile reckoning; the Jewish date began at sundown or dark the night before)



Longer look:



+ Leviticus 26:14-46 says Israel will pay seven times over for disobedience



…If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.



Ezekiel 4:1-8 demonstrate 430 days/years of punishment in captivity/”scattered” for disobedience

«NOW you son of man, get yourself a brick, place it before you and inscribe a city on it, Jerusalem.

2

«Then lay siege against it, build a siege wall, raise up a ramp, pitch camps and place battering rams against it all around.

3

«Then get yourself an iron plate and set it up as an iron wall between you and the city, and set your face toward it so that it is under siege, and besiege it. This is a sign to the house of Israel.

4

«As for you, lie down on your left side and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel on it; you shall bear their iniquity for the number of days that you lie on it.

5

«For I have assigned you a number of days corresponding to the years of their iniquity, three hundred and ninety days; thus you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

6

«When you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side and bear the iniquity of the house of Judah; I have assigned it to you for forty days, a day for each year.

7

«Then you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem with your arm bared and prophesy against it.

8

«Now behold, I will put ropes on you so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have completed the days of your siege.



in 606 BCE; Judah/Israel was transported away from home—Cyrus conquered Babylon after 70 years and said return in 536 BC, yet only 50,000 devout Jews returned (Jeremiah 25:11 mentions these 70 years’ captivity about which Daniel prayed for wisdom as their end approached)



taking 430 minus 70 years of warning/captivity equals 360 years (multiplied times seven for punishment of Leviticus) = 360 x 7 x 360 [days] or 907,200 days from Cyrus’ decree to May 15, 1948 AD…when Israel was declared a nation!!!

**

1. I said some versions say seven times over and some say seven times. (One of the issues is you are seeking a multiplication word nonexistent in ancient Hebrew to my knowledge... there are words for "divide" meaning separate, but the Bible isn't a math text per se.)

2. If you multiply seven times the length of the diaspora, which inception date is verifiable in history outside the Bible via archaeology, you get May 15, 1948, which is the EXACT date and 12:01 AM when Israel again became a Jewish nation.

3. No one knew that putting those prophecies together yielding May 15, 1948 until AFTER the UN declaration and ratification.

4. The Bible further says God will show His power and foreknowledge by making Israel a Jewish nation in one day, TWICE. (1: The exodus from Egypt with wealth and empowerment. 2. The May 1948 reformation where it was named a nation at 12:01 AM.)

Additionally, the Bible says this new, reformed Jewish nation will appear and be made in the midst of its enemies. ALSO on May 15, six Arab nations opened a war against the new nation. Muslim nations neighbor Israel in Europe, Asia and Africa. (You may have wondered how these mostly European Jews fleeing the Holocaust suddenly had enemies when they opened a peaceful nation. There are reasons including fulfilled prophecy--like Abraham's children being in perpetual war. That has CERTAINLY been proven true SINCE 1948. You are trifling with modern prophecy fulfillment, not ancient unverified news.)

Additionally beyond that, you can do a Google search and find dozens of other prophecies made over modern Israel, all fulfilled since 1948, some of them tricky to fulfill and specific (like fruitful Israel will become a desert and then bloom richly - and the Romans plowed Jerusalem with salt and wrecked the place, and then modern Jewry replanted enough trees in Israel to change the water table of the entire nation so that Israeli fruit and flowers are coveted exports worldwide!).

I want to be VERY clear with you. You, regardless of who else reads this post. I don't care. You have identified yourself to me as an open-minded Christian. If you haven't trusted Christ, my belief system is that you or anyone else is risking eternal perdition.

I recommend that you read this post again, slowly and carefully. You are looking for words in the Hebrew that don't exist. Unfortunately for you--or fortunately, depending on perspective, the odds of Israel being made a desert and then bloom again and a Jewish nation being rebirthed in a day in the midst of its enemies on one exact date thousands of years after the prophecies are made is quite astronomical. AND THERE ARE DOZENS OF OTHER PROPHECIES.

You are playing with fire. PLEASE, please read this post as carefully as you know how--and then say a prayer.

Thanks.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Only because of your mathematical gymnastics. They're actually very easy to do, and totally unimpressive to anyone who realizes how easy math makes it to manipulate numbers.

I understand! It was "really easy" to take the two chief Bible passages about diaspora, to then as indicated multiply times 7 the biblical years of diaspora, and have it "magically" come out as May 14, 1948 CE.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I understand! It was "really easy" to take the two chief Bible passages about diaspora, to then as indicated multiply times 7 the biblical years of diaspora, and have it "magically" come out as May 14, 1948 CE.

It's easy to take numbers you find relative and important and apply various mathematics rules and principles to get the desired result.

 

[BilliardsBall]

It's easy to take numbers you find relative and important and apply various mathematics rules and principles to get the desired result.

The numbers are:

1) A statement of the number of years (360-day biblical years) for diaspora

2) A multiplicand of 7

3) The date of the diaspora is confirmed in archaeology

4) The diaspora times 7 adds to May 1948, the very month Israel was founded, after 2520 years of diaspora?

Explain.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Explain.

I've been trying. You pointing to events, looking for Biblical references, and plugging in numbers to make things work. It's been done before. It's always failed to predict the end. And, of course it should fail, because Jesus himself told his followers it will be unexpected, come like a thief in the night, and that only the father knows anyways so its rather pretentious to pretend you know what the Son himself does not.

 

[night912]

Sorry, but you got it wrong and just seeing things for what you want it to be. Eventhough they are supposed to be propechies, those verses of Ezekiel are not about Israel becoming a nation.

 

[Howard Is]

Today I've been daydreaming about a debate between Jesus and Nietzsche. If I could watch any two people in history debate, it would be Jesus Christ and Friederich Nietzsche. Both were extremely arrogant and witty and had polar opposite viewpoints on nearly everything. Can you imagine a debate between these two guys? Their tempers would probably flare constantly. For example (to quote each of them): Nietzsche would say "—Must I add that, in the whole New Testament, there appears but a solitary figure worthy of honour? Pilate, the Roman viceroy." And then Jesus would yell "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!" And Nietzsche would say "This eternal accusation against Christianity I shall write upon all walls, wherever walls are to be found—I have letters that even the blind will be able to see.... I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough,—I call it the one immortal blemish upon the human race...."

Can you imagine the entertainment? I'd pay good money to watch it. Too bad these two never met...

Yeah,no,yeah. (That's Tasmanian dialect)
That debate happened in my grey matter for some years when I was young.

It eventually resulted in a pragmatic sense of humour.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I've been trying. You pointing to events, looking for Biblical references, and plugging in numbers to make things work. It's been done before. It's always failed to predict the end. And, of course it should fail, because Jesus himself told his followers it will be unexpected, come like a thief in the night, and that only the father knows anyways so its rather pretentious to pretend you know what the Son himself does not.

Huh? I'm not predicting the end of the world.

Rather, I've pointed to literal, specific prophecies indicating the Jewish diaspora ended precisely when the Bible predicted.

 

[Howard Is]

Huh? I'm not predicting the end of the world.

Rather, I've pointed to literal, specific prophecies indicating the Jewish diaspora ended precisely when the Bible predicted.

A million monkeys with typewriters...

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