1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus, the Only Begotten Son

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by Bishka, Jan 14, 2006.

  1. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,919
    Ratings:
    +1,487
    How is this different then other Christian faiths, tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't this basically what other Christians believe?

    "The Latter-day Saints believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, who came in the meridian of time, performed his work, sufffered the penalty and paid the debt of man's original sin by offereing up himself, was resurrected from the dead, and ascended to his Fahter' and as Jesus descended below all things, so he will ascend above all things.(Young, Brigham. Discourses of Brigham Young. pg. 31)

    So how is this all that different?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    14,087
    Ratings:
    +2,200
    Religion:
    Non-Denominational Christian
    We totally believe the same as far as Christ being the begotten Son of God and that Christ was the ultimate atonement for our sins...

    But most Christians accept the concept of Trinity...God as three persons...Father SON and Holy Ghost.
     
  3. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +953
    It is not different at all.
     
  4. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,919
    Ratings:
    +1,487
    Okay, that's what I figured. Then we do people say we don't believe in the same Christ. Whether Christ is in the trinity or not, does not matter, He is the same person. Right?
     
  5. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    14,087
    Ratings:
    +2,200
    Religion:
    Non-Denominational Christian
    Yes!:) I would say the core of our beliefs are about the same.
     
  6. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    So Jesus, the only-begotten Son, had a beginning to his life. And Almighty God can rightly be called his Begetter, or Father, in the same sense that an earthly father, like Abraham, begets a son. (Hebrews 11:17) Hence, when the Bible speaks of God as the "Father" of Jesus, it means what it says—that they are two separate individuals. God is the senior. Jesus is the junior—in time, position, power, and knowledge.

     
  7. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,641
    Ratings:
    +6,295
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    The Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ holds a position subordinate to that of His Father in that He created the universe under His Father's direction (pre-mortally), He did He Father's will while on earth (mortally) and that, unlike His Father, does not know the exact time of His Second Coming (post-mortally). So I'd say that we sort of have a similar belief to the JWs in that regard. But, unlike the JWs, we believe that it is entirely appropriate to refer to Jesus as "God." This is a title that His Father gave Him. It does not lessen the Father's power to have done so, since they are one in will and purpose. The Son acknowledged the Father as His "God" and the Father referred to the Son (at least on one occasion that I'm aware of) as "God."
     
  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    I seem to remember that God said that Jesus was his son
    Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved...matthew 3;17



    Consider the power that Jesus had during his prehuman existence. Jehovah exercised his own "eternal power" when he created his only-begotten Son, who came to be known as Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:20; Colossians 1:15) Thereafter, Jehovah delegated tremendous power and authority to this Son, assigning him to carry out His creative purposes. Concerning the Son, the Bible says: "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."—John 1:3.




    We can but barely perceive the magnitude of that assignment. Imagine the power needed to bring into existence millions of mighty angels, the physical universe with its billions of galaxies, and the earth with its abundant variety of life. To accomplish those tasks, the only-begotten Son had at his disposal the most powerful force in the universe—God’s holy spirit. This Son found great pleasure in being the Master Worker, whom Jehovah used in creating all other things.—Proverbs 8:22-31.




    (Isaiah 42:1) Look! My servant, on whom I keep fast hold! My chosen one, [whom] my soul has approved! I have put my spirit in him. Justice to the nations is what he will bring forth.





    (Matthew 12:18) "Look! My servant whom I chose, my beloved, whom my soul approved! I will put my spirit upon him, and what justice is he will make clear to the nations.​


    (2 Peter 1:17) For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: "This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.............. i dont think the bible tells us he is God, i think the bible tells us he is seperate from God








     
  9. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,919
    Ratings:
    +1,487
    I think Katzpur is saying, yes, christ is seperate from God, but He is a God, so-to-speak. Am I right Katzpur?
     
  10. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,641
    Ratings:
    +6,295
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    I think the Bible tells us both of these things. I definitely don't believe that Jesus is the same individual as His own Father, if that's what you're thinking.

    Hebrews 1:8 states: But unto the Son he [i.e. God] saith, "Thy thone, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." I'm afraid I can't overlook that one.

    And in John 20:28, Thomas said to Jesus (upon first seeing Him after His resurrection), "My Lord and my God." The fact that Jesus did not correct Him is enough evidence to me that Jesus considered Himself to be Thomas' Lord and God. And if Thomas', then ours too.

    Finally, in John 10:18, Jesus said, (speaking of His life) "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again." For anyone to have power over life and death, He would have to be God. No mere mortal could take up his own life again after having died. We must rely upon our Father in Heaven to give us new life, but Jesus was able to rise again through His own power.

    As far as scriptures telling us that the Father and the Son are physically separate from one another, there are far, far too many for me to even list.
     
  11. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110

    God is the "throne," or Source and Upholder of Christ’s kingship, Daniel 7:13, 14 and Luke 1:32 show that God confers such authority on him so in line with this hebrews 1;8 says

    But with reference to the Son: "God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness

    God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.’"—The Epistle to the Hebrews (London, 1889), pp. 25, 26.

     
  12. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,641
    Ratings:
    +6,295
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    Okay, well, we obviously disagree as to how this verse should have been translated, and I don't see us as coming to an agreement on it. So what do you have to say about the other verses I mentioned?
     
  13. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    well i think that Jesus had already made the point that he had a God as a few verses back in John 20; 17 he says that he had a God

    (John 20:17) Jesus said to her: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God................. so he did not claim to be God even if others thought he was

    (John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him

     
  14. onmybelief

    onmybelief Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    257
    Ratings:
    +39
    For the United Methodist Chuch Jesus Christ - the Son, God - the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the very same. As the words of one hymn say: To Thee, great One in Three,
    Eternal praises be, hence, evermore.
     
  15. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,416
    Ratings:
    +654
    Well, it's different from the Orthodox view (ignoring the Trinity issue) only where it starts talking about paying the debt and suffering the penalty for original sin. Both substitutionary atonement and the idea of original sin are alien to Orthodox theology. Having said that, they aren't alien to Roman Catholicism and I certainly wouldn't say they worshipped a different Christ, but rather had a different view of Him. It's where your theology touches on the nature of Christ (Christology) where I can see people having more justification in saying you follow a different Christ, but even then I (in all honesty) would say that you are following the same Christ but that you have a faulty understanding of Who He is (and I'm not trying to upset you, just being honest).

    James
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110

    No man has taken it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. The commandment on this I received from my Father ........John 10;18 this verse is telling me that Jesus allowed himself to be killed , he was willing to do his fathers will by allowing himself to be killed he willingly did that , but the bible tells me that it was his father who raised him up ,not Jesus himself

    (Acts 2:24) But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it............. yes God resurrected him not he himself

    (Acts 3:15) whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses............ it was God his father who raised him up not himself

    (1 Corinthians 6:14) But God both raised up the Lord and will raise us up out of [death] through his power

    (Acts 13:30) But God raised him up from the dead;.............. so i think the bible teaches that Jesus was resurrected by his fathers power

     
  17. Endless

    Endless Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    307
    Ratings:
    +19
    I believe in the concept of the Trinity - i believe it's what the Bible teaches.

    We see the Holy Spirit of God, Jesus the Son of God and then God the Father - yet all shown to be God. That's why Katzpur we find Jesus being shown as separate from God the Father but also as God. If we read on a bit in Hebrews 1 to verse 10 we read the following still talking about Jesus:

    Therefore teaching that Jesus created everything - also agreeing with John who wrote concerning Jesus:

    Jesus created everything. Yet in Genesis chapter one we read the following:

    Again showing that Jesus was God himself. We also have the Spirit of God hovering over the waters at creation in verse 2. God is talked about in the singular in the creation account until he has a discussion..

    We know Jesus created all things - yet God is saying 'let us make' - therefore Jesus is saying as God, let us make. Plural - a singular God, is showing himself to be a plural. There is no other explanation for this - All three are God and yet are separate. This one God is the same that said:

    One Lord, one God...yet three.

    Again, both are shown to be the same - because though there is only one God, all things came through both the Father and also through the Lord Jesus Christ.

    I hope this helps a few people.
     
  18. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,239
    Ratings:
    +158
    But in Hebrews 1:1-2, we read, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds..."

    Look at what these verses are saying... God, who at various times and ways spoke to us in the past through His prophets, has spoken to us in these days through His Son. And then, He clarifies that His Son is the same individual whom He made heir of all that He had and the same individual who created the world -- under His direction. What need would God have had to appoint himself "heir of all things"? If all things were already His, He would not need to have appointed himself to be His heir. If God (i.e. the Father) had physically been the Creator, He would not have referred to His Son as the one who "made the worlds."

    So Jesus Christ is obviously a separate individual from His own Father. They are both divine persons (both known as "God") who, along with the Holy Ghost, make up the Godhead. The word "God" is, incidentally, a synonym for the word "Godhead." And there is only one "Godhead."
     
  19. Endless

    Endless Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    307
    Ratings:
    +19
    I never said that Jesus was God the Father - merely that Jesus was and is God. The Bible makes the distinction between Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit very clear - they are indeed different from one another. Yet the Bible is also very clear that each of them are God and that there is only one God.
    However remember:

    The 'Godhead' which you talk about has to be one - no matter what angle you come at it from.
     
  20. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,239
    Ratings:
    +158
    I can go along with that, just as long as you don't say they are both a part of a single substance that fills the universe. Just define the word "substance" in such a way that the three members of the Godhead are not the same physical being. The Bible definitely doesn't teach that they are. Or better still, find a better word than substance. My God is not an invisible substance. By the way, the "Godhead" I talk about is the same "Godhead" the scriptures talk about.
     
Loading...