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Jesus: The Missing Years in the East

godnotgod

Thou art That
By "orthodox Judaism" do you mean the Pharisee or the Sadducee version? They were the ones adding artificial concepts into the scriptural interpretation.

I mean whatever version is dictating the commandments that pertain to Temple attendance and participation.

Who says Nazarenes were "Mystics"? How do you know they were not the most "orthodox" of all and viewed the Pharisees as the "mystics" painting their own superstitious ideas into the law?

It is the orthodox views that are superstitious. Generally speaking, mystics are sects of the orthodox religious views. For example, Yoga is the mystical branch of Hinduism; Zen the mystical branch of Buddhism; Sufism the mystical branch of Islam; Kabbalah the mystical branch of Judaism, etc. As for the Nazerenes, the scripture refers to them as being a 'sect':


At the time of Jesus, there were three major Jewish Sects. The Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Essenes. The Pharisees and the Sadducees were relatively similar in their beliefs and traditions, but the Essenes were radically different and openly opposed the theology, doctrines, and the spiritual integrity of both the Pharisees and the Sadducees...

...At the time of Jesus, there were three distinct Essenian groups that played important roles in his life, and their religious practices and spiritual theology mirror in his teachings. They were:

> The Theraputae of Egypt; where the infant Christ and his family fled during Herods rein. [Therapeutae were known as healers, derived from the Theravada Buddhists in the East]

> The Essenes of Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls), the strict, celibate monastery of which John the Baptist was a part. [Qumran Essenes were an apocalyptic sect]

> The Nazarenes of Mount Carmel, the cooperative family village where Jesus lived and studied. [Nazarenes were mystics]

Josephus and other classic writers tell us of the Essenes and their intense appreciation for the inspired Law of God... [who] opposed slavery, the sacrificing of animals and the eating of flesh.


Nazarene or Nazareth?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest

Hang on a second. Did you really read his website carefully before you copied from it? This guy thinks that few people can read Aramaic, and that after talking with many scholars he came to the realization that he's one of the rare birds who can translate the texts. He also thinks that there are no competent translations of the Bible. On top of that, he thinks that the published Aramaic texts are older than the NT texts, which is also a lie. It's not bad scholarship. The man is a liar.

For one thing, most people who read Hebrew can read Aramaic, and its required for anyone in a PhD program related to the Hebrew Bible because some of those texts actually are written in Hebrew. There are thousands of scholars who can competently translate any given Aramaic text.

Anyway, I know you're gullible, but I did assume that there were limits.

Did I tell you I have some nice property for sale in Arizona?

Aramaic Bible Translation Project by Victor Alexander
After I studied the Bible and compared texts between different versions, it suddenly dawned on me that there really was no competent translation! I searched some more. As unbelievable as it seemed, it was true. Then I thought, surely, who am I, a layman, to even think of translating the Bible? Did I truly have the competence to do justice to the job? I looked around me and talked to many experts, scholars and clergy alike, and I came to the conclusion, amazingly, that I was probably one of the rarest of translators who had the most extensive and powerful understanding of both the languages of the Scriptures and modern American English.

This is truly fantastic.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
none rhyme in Greek or any other language and yet all rhyme in Aramaic.*

OK, despite all of the other looney things that he says, this is the worst. It demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's not operating in the same universe as the text.

My god, he might as well have told you that his head was a peanut and you'd be pasting it on websites just because he says that it's against church teaching.

Have some respect for yourself. Jeez.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
none rhyme in Greek or any other language and yet all rhyme in Aramaic.*

OK, despite all of the other looney things that he says, this is the worst. It demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's not operating in the same universe as the text.

My god, he might as well have told you that his head was a peanut and you'd be pasting it on websites just because he says that it's against church teaching.

Have some respect for yourself. Jeez.

Following is an example of what Alexander is referring to, from a source unrelated to his:


As we saw in the lesson Which Came First - Aramaic or Greek?, one of the hallmarks of an original language text is that puns and poetry occur naturally, and even frequently in good writing. In a translation, however, puns and similar plays on words are generally lost. When faced with two languages which both claim to be original, this is a great way to work out which is the original and which is a translation.

If we apply this to the Aramaic Pe****ta and the Greek New Testament, we find that the Aramaic Pe****ta has a super-abundance of poetry, puns, and plays on words. So many, in fact, that this is almost a feature of the Aramaic Pe****ta. Just as the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) contains frequent puns and words rhyme and so on, this also happens with the Aramaic Pe****ta. This is powerful evidence of Aramaic Primacy rather than Greek Primacy.

Let's look at an example from the following well-known verse in Matthew 11:17:

Matthew 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. (KJV)

In the Aramaic Pe****ta, the verse looks like this:


http://www.allthingsaramaic.com/_files/image/aramaic-pe****ta-matt11v17.gif


(We have used the Hebrew/Aramaic Square Script for convenience).

Now, in this simple verse there is a lovely play on words which is completely missed in all English translations, the Greek and Latin New Testaments. The Aramaic verbs translated danced and lamented are shown in red in the above verse from the Aramaic Pe****ta. They are actually the same root, but different forms of the verb. In the Pael form of the verb in Aramaic, it means to dance, but in the Aphel form of the Aramaic verb, it means to mourn. This word play is only possible in Aramaic. Greek uses completely different words. The pun would not be possible in Hebrew, which uses different words. (The verb rakad in Hebrew does mean to dance, but there is no equivalent form in Hebrew meaning to mourn).

In the Aramaic Pe****ta, the two forms of the verb even sound alike - rakedetoon and arkedetoon. It is a delightful word play, but only present in Aramaic. There is also balance and harmony between the two halves of the verse. The two halves rhyme very easily. Each half contains four very short words, with the long word being the one that has the clever pun. It sounds very poetical in Aramaic.

At this point, we ask a familiar question again. Which Came First - Aramaic or Greek? A reasonable person would surely have to conclude that puns and poetry such as this are evidence of an original text. The Aramaic Pe****ta contains many similar examples, just like the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible). You would expect a translation not to have puns like this, because you can't really translate poetry and plays on words. That is why you miss so much in an English translation, just as you miss a lot in a Greek translation.

Those who believe that the Greek New Testament was translated from the Aramaic Pe****ta, and not the other way round, can produce many, many examples similar to this. Whole books have been written about this very subject. This is why Aramaic Primacy is such a convincing and satisfying position. These examples are similar to those in the Tanakh. Just as there are abundant Treasures in the Tanakh, there are also abundant Pearls in the Pe****ta.

http://www.allthingsaramaic.com/pe****ta-danced-mourned.php
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Glad to see your'e finally coming around.:D

Fantastic in the sense of its unbelievable stupidity.

One shouldn't be able to just fabricate stuff whole cloth and pull one over on a thoughtful person such as yourself.

This one takes the cake.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Following is an example of what Alexander is referring to, from a source unrelated to his:


As we saw in the lesson Which Came First - Aramaic or Greek?, one of the hallmarks of an original language text is that puns and poetry occur naturally, and even frequently in good writing. In a translation, however, puns and similar plays on words are generally lost. When faced with two languages which both claim to be original, this is a great way to work out which is the original and which is a translation.

If we apply this to the Aramaic Pe****ta and the Greek New Testament, we find that the Aramaic Pe****ta has a super-abundance of poetry, puns, and plays on words. So many, in fact, that this is almost a feature of the Aramaic Pe****ta. Just as the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) contains frequent puns and words rhyme and so on, this also happens with the Aramaic Pe****ta. This is powerful evidence of Aramaic Primacy rather than Greek Primacy.

Let's look at an example from the following well-known verse in Matthew 11:17:

Matthew 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. (KJV)

In the Aramaic Pe****ta, the verse looks like this:


http://www.allthingsaramaic.com/_files/image/aramaic-pe****ta-matt11v17.gif


(We have used the Hebrew/Aramaic Square Script for convenience).

Now, in this simple verse there is a lovely play on words which is completely missed in all English translations, the Greek and Latin New Testaments. The Aramaic verbs translated danced and lamented are shown in red in the above verse from the Aramaic Pe****ta. They are actually the same root, but different forms of the verb. In the Pael form of the verb in Aramaic, it means to dance, but in the Aphel form of the Aramaic verb, it means to mourn. This word play is only possible in Aramaic. Greek uses completely different words. The pun would not be possible in Hebrew, which uses different words. (The verb rakad in Hebrew does mean to dance, but there is no equivalent form in Hebrew meaning to mourn).

In the Aramaic Pe****ta, the two forms of the verb even sound alike - rakedetoon and arkedetoon. It is a delightful word play, but only present in Aramaic. There is also balance and harmony between the two halves of the verse. The two halves rhyme very easily. Each half contains four very short words, with the long word being the one that has the clever pun. It sounds very poetical in Aramaic.

At this point, we ask a familiar question again. Which Came First - Aramaic or Greek? A reasonable person would surely have to conclude that puns and poetry such as this are evidence of an original text. The Aramaic Pe****ta contains many similar examples, just like the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible). You would expect a translation not to have puns like this, because you can't really translate poetry and plays on words. That is why you miss so much in an English translation, just as you miss a lot in a Greek translation.

Those who believe that the Greek New Testament was translated from the Aramaic Pe****ta, and not the other way round, can produce many, many examples similar to this. Whole books have been written about this very subject. This is why Aramaic Primacy is such a convincing and satisfying position. These examples are similar to those in the Tanakh. Just as there are abundant Treasures in the Tanakh, there are also abundant Pearls in the Pe****ta.

Puns in the Aramaic Pe****ta - Danced/Mourned. Pearls of the Pe****ta (Aramaic New Testament).

Hey look everybody! I can thoughtlessly copy and paste!
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
The NT was originally carved in a giant dino turd by a soberly tober Elvis before he had a ten year affair with Fred Flintsone on top of a giant vat of cole slaw.

That'll be $15k for my friend, then a nickel for the rest of ya. [why the high cost? he'll learn more]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfgZH8kFAKc
 
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LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The NT was originally carved in a giant dino turd by a soberly tober Elvis before he had a ten year affair with Fred Flintsone on top of a giant vat of cole slaw.

That'll be $15k for my friend, then a nickel for the rest of ya. [why the high cost? he'll learn more]

[youtube]tfgZH8kFAKc[/youtube]
I'll Never Smoke Weed With Willie Again - YouTube

Wow! Before, you were clearly a scholar who was toeing the Christian theological line, just as conspiracy theory demands. Now you reveal yourself to be an enlightened, knowledgeable individual that people from all corners of the internet can trust!
Angellous: "I have a doctorate in new testament studies!"
Representative Aramaic Primacist: "No good. You're useless to us"
Angellous: "Ok, well I can make up crap that sounds appealing to people who haven't a clue"
RAP: "You must be an expert who learned to read Aramaic because they grew up in the only village which perfectly preserved the ancient Aramaic dialect of Jesus (despite the fact nobody knows what this was)"
Angellous: "That's right. I was born in the place where they found dinosaurs in Conan Doyle's The Lost World, which it turns out was a real place and which Jesus went to so that someone, one day, could build an internet fan base of ridiculously gullible fools who told them he spoke Jesus' Aramaic."
 

Slapstick

Active Member
Wow! Before, you were clearly a scholar who was toeing the Christian theological line, just as conspiracy theory demands. Now you reveal yourself to be an enlightened, knowledgeable individual that people from all corners of the internet can trust!
Angellous: "I have a doctorate in new testament studies!"
Representative Aramaic Primacist: "No good. You're useless to us"
Angellous: "Ok, well I can make up crap that sounds appealing to people who haven't a clue"
RAP: "You must be an expert who learned to read Aramaic because they grew up in the only village which perfectly preserved the ancient Aramaic dialect of Jesus (despite the fact nobody knows what this was)"
Angellous: "That's right. I was born in the place where they found dinosaurs in Conan Doyle's The Lost World, which it turns out was a real place and which Jesus went to so that someone, one day, could build an internet fan base of ridiculously gullible fools who told them he spoke Jesus' Aramaic."
Jesus clearly spoke English, which is why all other civilizations had a hard time understanding him.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Wow! Before, you were clearly a scholar who was toeing the Christian theological line, just as conspiracy theory demands. Now you reveal yourself to be an enlightened, knowledgeable individual that people from all corners of the internet can trust!
Angellous: "I have a doctorate in new testament studies!"
Representative Aramaic Primacist: "No good. You're useless to us"
Angellous: "Ok, well I can make up crap that sounds appealing to people who haven't a clue"
RAP: "You must be an expert who learned to read Aramaic because they grew up in the only village which perfectly preserved the ancient Aramaic dialect of Jesus (despite the fact nobody knows what this was)"
Angellous: "That's right. I was born in the place where they found dinosaurs in Conan Doyle's The Lost World, which it turns out was a real place and which Jesus went to so that someone, one day, could build an internet fan base of ridiculously gullible fools who told them he spoke Jesus' Aramaic."

If only I could make money on it. Lots of money.
 
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