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Jesus. The living God!

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SA Huguenot, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I followed a few threads on the Trinity, abd the divinity of God, and even if it is highly packed with data and opinions, I still learned a lot from the participants.

    However, there is one argument, if I may call it as such, that did not surface in all these posts, and this is the words Jesus used when He answered the High priest:

    Mark 14:60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
    Mark 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
    Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
    Mark 14:63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
    Mark 14:64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

    Now, there are many instances where Jesus said these words and where people referred to Jesus calling Himself "I AM"

    Now for an interesting fact.
    The Jews never spoke Greek, even Josephus (37 to 100Ad) said that he could not find any jew that could help him to translate his book from Aramaic to Greek except for three men. He also continioued to say, the Jew and their leaders would say that it is better to eat swine, than to learn Greek.

    Therefore, one must look at the Aramaic of Jesus's words because this was the language He spoke, and it would certainly tell us what He intended to mean in saying: "I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    So lets see:
    The English translates I AM from the Greek ---Ego Emi.
    The Aramaic is "Ena na"
    Ena na is the word used for the English literal translation to ---"The Living God"!
    The Pesheta and Diadache is the oldest dated new Testament, and is quoted by ancient Christian Church Fathers, as old as from the 1st century.
    This all makes perfect sense taken into consideration that it is highly likely that the Greek was translated from the Aramaic, and the oldest Greek Manuscripts dates anything from 65AD to 120Ad (up to 900AD)

    Therefore, when the High Priest asked Jesus: Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
    Jesus answered: "I am the Living God: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
    Now it makes perfect sense that the High priest followed up with!!!

    Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
    Mark 14:64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
    Jesus was crucified because He claimed to be God!

    Trinity!
     
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  2. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    The effect it had on the Temple guards is also a revealing.

    Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
    Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

    What did Jesus say?
    Ena na!
    I am the Living God!
    Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
    Joh 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

    What did he say here to make the Jews want to stone him?
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am the living God!.

    Why?
    because in Aramaic we find the reason in Exodus 3: 14!
    Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
    Ena na = the Living God!
    Every Jew today knows this verse is
    Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the living God hath sent me unto you.

    If one listen to Bart Ehrman, an agnostic because he does not believe in miracles, who is one of the foremost manuscript experts, he will tell you that:
    In the oldest fragments of John we find that Jesus claimed to be God!

    To conclude, if one take John 1: 1 to 16 and look at why the sanhedren crucified Jesus, and what Jesus said about Himself, there is no question that Jesus either was not God and blasphemed, or he was God with the Father and Holy Spirit.
    Not as 3 different Gods, but as one with YHWH.
    He was the Word (Mind) of YHWH and together with the Spirit of YHWH, they could leave YHWH to interact with creation, and could return as one with YHWH.

    I hope you enjoy the descriptions I layed out here.
    Greetings in the Name of YHWH Shua.
     
  3. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    Christ is eternal Spirit, Christ was dwelling in Jesus until that moment on the Cross.
     
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  4. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Then the Spirit left the body, went to Gehena, preached to the spirits who died before, rose from the Dead, was glorified in his heavenly glorious body of light, and ascended into heaven to unite with his Heavenly "Existance" the "Father" and the Holy Spirit as one God!
     
  5. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was no god, and when he died he stayed dead, imo.
     
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  6. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Oh yea very "i think" common.

    Here is an i think. The man stands above his brain below. Big gap between man and brain. "my brain" very common. 598px-Darwins_first_tree.jpg
     
  7. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    "being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19in whichc he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,"
     
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  8. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    That makes no sense at all!
     
  9. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Do Christians make graven image of Jesus?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  10. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    It says that word "preached" was not there, it says that Physical part of Christ - Jesus- suffered death while Spirit proclaimed in prison where disobedient spirits were kept.
     
  11. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't a Hellenist a Jew who spoke Greek?
     
  12. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Who was / is Jesus' God?
     
    #12 Hockeycowboy, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I thought the quote was; "You say that I am". Not just, "I am". That makes a very big difference.
     
    #13 PureX, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  14. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thing is that also Paul says

    … I am [ego emi]…
    Acts 23:6

    Is Paul also a god?
     
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  15. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Nope.
     
  16. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    True
    But then te verse will not make sense.
    Then Paul must have said "The living God a Pharisee"
    Jesus said to the Guards who came to arrest him, I Am, and they fell back.
    In Greek it is I Am, but in Aramaic the words are Ena na, which should not be used to introduce oneself, and it is The Living God.
    This was what shocked these Guards, the first time in their lives they heard someone calling himself, I am the Living God.
    In Paul's writing, he states I am a Pharisee.
    Not I AM.

     
  17. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    And it goes like this:
    "You say that!
    I Am"
    this is the only way one can read the verse whene taking into consideration that the High priest and every one around Jesus accepted His words as Blasphemy declaring Himself the Living God.
    If jesus did say, you say I am the Son of the Most High, they would not have interpereted it as Blasphemy.
    Listening to bart Rhrman, it is very clear that Jesus told them "Ena na"
    I am who I am!
     
  18. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Actually, I doubt it would have mattered much what he said, as they were intent on condemning him, regardless. And your addition of the exclamation point doesn't really change that. Just as today, his 'believers' have likewise already made up their minds, and will interpret any words attributed to him to mean what they want them to mean. .
     
  19. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    True.
    The exclamation mark was a typo.
    Non such a thing existed 2000 years ago.
    Sorry. I wont remove it for someone might think I am taking a fat chance.
    And you are right.
    Jesus could have kept silent totally, and they would have killed him.
    We find the reason in
    Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
    verses where Jesus made himself equal to God the Father
    John 8:19; John 12:44;ohn 12:45,46;John 14:9;John 15:24;John 15:23;Matthew 10:40;Mark 9:37;John 13:20;Luke 10:16;

    Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus answered to the question: “Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?”. What else he could have said than I am? If “I am” means in that "The Living God", then the answer is really: “The Living God and ye shall see the Son of…”. I don’t think it could mean Jesus is saying, “I am The Living God”.
     
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