Jesus, the Christian Myth

[MJFlores]

And continuing what the apostle Peter said:

Acts 2:22-24 New International Version (NIV)

“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

Did Peter preached Jesus of Nazareth as god and man?

Peter said:

This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

Peter said: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God. This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge.

Who raised who from the dead according to apostle Peter?

But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

The choice is very clear - either you believe the Bible or some teaching from some dead bishops. I chose the Bible so I left their confusing teachings behind. If people want to be alive IN Christ they should follow the teachings Christ or be dead like the bishops who created a human made teaching

Colossians 2:22
These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT) word that this way:

which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men,

 

[MJFlores]

Your typical non-response. Dodging. Misdirection. Hiding in fear of the Biblical truth demolishing your heretical position. It has become utterly repulsive. If presenting incoherent arguments, twisting Scripture and avoiding any direct responses refuting your assertions time after time, hoping, by this method, to wear down your opponent, is your claim to victory, that is the only thing you can take pride in. That and doing service to the INC cult.

How can you say I'm twisting?

When all the bible translations are mentioning one message Acts 2:22 - that Jesus of Nazareth is a Man?

KJ21
“Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man approved of God among you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did through Him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know —

ASV
Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know;

AMP
“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man accredited and pointed out andattested to you by God with [the power to perform] miracles and wonders and signs which God worked through Him in your [very] midst, just as you yourselves know—

AMPC
You men of Israel, listen to what I have to say: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man accredited and pointed outand shown forth and commended and attested to you by God by the mighty works and [the power of performing] wonders and signs which God worked through Him

in your midst, as you yourselves know—

BRG
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

CSB
“Fellow Israelites, listen to these words: This Jesus of Nazareth was a man attested to you by God with miracles, wonders, and signs that God did among you through him, just as you yourselves know.

CEB
“Fellow Israelites, listen to these words! Jesus the Nazarene was a man whose credentials God proved to you through miracles, wonders, and signs, which God performed through him among you. You yourselves know this.

CJB
“Men of Isra’el! Listen to this! Yeshua from Natzeret was a man demonstrated to you to have been from God by the powerful works, miracles and signs that God performed through him in your presence. You yourselves know this.

DARBY
Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Nazaraean, a man borne witness to by God to you by works of power and wonders and signs, which God wrought by him in your midst, as yourselves know

DLNT
“Men, Israelites, listen-to these words: As to Jesus the Nazarene, a man having been attested by God to you with miracles and wonders and signs which God did through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know—

DRA
Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you, by miracles, and wonders, and signs, which God did by him, in the midst of you, as you also know:

ESV
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know—

ESVUK
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know—

EXB
“·People of Israel [L Men, Israelites], ·listen to [hear] these words: Jesus ·from Nazareth [or the Nazarene] was a very special man. God clearly ·showed [attested; pointed out] this to you by the ·miracles [mighty deeds], wonders, and signs he did through Jesus. You all know this, because it happened ·right here among you [L in your midst].

GNV
Ye men of Israel, hear these words, JESUS of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you with great works, and wonders, and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

GW
“Men of Israel, listen to what I say: Jesus from Nazareth was a man whom God brought to your attention. You know that through this man God worked miracles, did amazing things, and gave signs.

GNT
“Listen to these words, fellow Israelites! Jesus of Nazareth was a man whose divine authority was clearly proven to you by all the miracles and wonders which God performed through him. You yourselves know this, for it happened here among you.

HCSB
“Men of Israel, listen to these words: This Jesus the Nazarene was a man pointed out to you by God with miracles, wonders, and signs that God did among you through Him, just as you yourselves know.

ICB
“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus from Nazareth was a very special man. God clearly showed this to you by the miracles, wonders, and signs God did through him. You all know this, because it happened right here among you.

ISV
“Fellow Israelis, listen to these words: Jesus from Nazareth was a man authenticated to you by God through miracles, wonders, and signs that God performed through him among you, as you yourselves know.

JUB
Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know,​

 

[MJFlores]

In your previous posts you made very many fallacious statements as well as twisting the Scriptures, but this statement: "And I worship the man Jesus Christ, not as God but for the glory (honor and praise) of God.", is the most unbiblical and anti-Christian.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and of four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen". Romans 1:18-25

"Then Jesus said to him, go, Satan! For it is written, you shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only". Matthew 4:10

Nowhere in Scripture does God command or allow the worship of any created thing including man. Worship is to be given to and received by God alone. No man, no matter how "very special" - Who "Was created by God the Father...God’s highest creation" does God say to worship. The INC, and you as one of it's subject's, are guilty of worshipping a created being contrary to the will of God as plainly written in Scripture. So the insistence that it is because "God says so" can only be true if Jesus is both God and man. There is no other possible, coherent explanation.

Both the humanity (sin excepted) and the Deity of Christ (hypostatic union) is affirmed in the New Testament and understood and believed by those who have been given eyes to see and ears to hear, who have not been "given over" by God and to whom Jesus has not pronounced this terrible sentence upon them: "Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind" Matthew 15:14a

Jesus is the Lord of Hosts of the Old Testament.

"In the year of King Uzziah's death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said, 'Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory.' And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. Then I said, 'woe is me, for I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live amoung a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.'" Isaiah 6:1-5

Now: "But though He (Jesus) had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him. This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: 'Lord, who has believed our report, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?' For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so they would not see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and be converted and I heal them.' These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory." John 12:37-41

Clearly John states that the vision Isaiah saw of the glory of "the King, the Lord of hosts high and lofty sitting on His throne" was non-other than the pre-incarnate Christ, the Lord of hosts (Jehovah Sabaoth).

"Therefore I (Jesus) said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM (ego eimi - YAHWEH) you will die in your sins." John 8:24

It would be nice if you don't throw many verses for me to comprehend and others to comprehend what you want to deliver. 1 or 2 would do.

One of the verses you used is:

"Therefore I (Jesus) said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM (ego eimi - YAHWEH) you will die in your sins." John 8:24

Jesus said I AM - Hoooray! Jesus is God! Yippeee!

Let us find out, let us extend the verses from the 24th to the 40th so we can really find out the true context. What is the true meaning of "I am he"

John 8:24-40 New International Version (NIV)

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

“Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

“Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.

That is why Jesus said I AM he

 

[Muffled]

Sister group - the Jehovah's witnesses?
Sorry the Jehovah's Witnesses originated from the US.

Classification Nontrinitarian, restorationist
Governance Governing Body
Structure Hierarchical[1]
Region Worldwide
Founder Charles Taze Russell[2]
Origin 1870s
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Branched from Bible Student movement
Congregations 119,485
Members 8.3 million
Official website www.jw.org
Statistics from 2017 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses[3]

While the Reformed Baptist - Protestant
Reformed Baptists (sometimes known as Calvinistic Baptists[1]) are Baptists that hold to a Calvinist soteriology.[2] They can trace their history through the early modern Particular Baptists of England.
View attachment 17274
The first Reformed Baptist church was formed in the 1630s.[1] The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith was written along Reformed Baptist lines.[1]

The Iglesia ni Cristo (Church of Christ) on the other hand is from the Philippines (which is in the Far East).
View attachment 17273
We do not translate the Bible but use the available versions the Catholic church and Protestant churches.

It does not really matter to the Iglesia ni Cristo which bible versions are to be used for as long the translations are done in good faith.

The Good News Bible is
Full name Good News Bible
Other names Good News Translation, Today's English Version
Abbreviation GNB (or GNT/TEV)
OT published 1976
NT published 1966
Complete Bible
published 1976
Textual basis Medium Correspondence to Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece 27th edition
Translation type Dynamic equivalence
Publisher Bible Societies, HarperCollins
Copyright American Bible Society 1966, 1971, 1976, 1979 (Deuterocanonicals/Apocrypha), 1992; Anglicizations British and Foreign Bible Society 1994

If the Reformed Baptist Church have a faithfully translated bible, we would use them also, like the NWT

Full name New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
Abbreviation NWT
Language 149 languages[1][2][3]
NT published 1950
Complete Bible
published 1961
Textual basis OT: Biblia Hebraica.
NT: Westcott & Hort.
Translation type Formal Equivalence with occasional ventures intoDynamic equivalence[4][5]
Copyright Copyright 1961, 1970, 1981, 1984, 2013 Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania
Copies printed 217,844,067 [6]

The Iglesia ni Cristo (Church of Christ) have differing beliefs with Jehovah's Witnesses. Their Jesus is different, your Jesus is different and our Lord Jesus Christ is different from the JW and yours.

The Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs in Jesus Christ are:

1. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is God's "only-begotten Son", and that his life began in heaven.
2. He is described as God's first creation and the "exact representation of God" but is believed to be a separate entity and not part of a Trinity.
3. Jesus is said to have been used by God in the creation of all other things.
4. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that theArchangel, Michael, "the Word" of John 1:1, and wisdom personified in Proverbs 8 refer to Jesus in his pre-human existence and that he resumed these identities after his ascension to heaven following his death and resurrection.
5. His birth on earth was accomplished when he willingly allowed himself to be transferred, by God, from heaven to the womb of the virgin, Mary
6. While on earth, Jesus was executed as a sacrifice to atone for mankind's sins, becoming the "eternal father" to the human family

The Iglesia ni Cristo (Church of Christ) beliefs in Jesus Christ are:

Jesus Christ as the Son of God:

“And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, ‘Surely this man was the Son of God!’” (Mark 15:39, NIV, emphasis mine).

Jesus Christ as our Lord:

“So, all the people of Israel should know this truly: God has made Jesus — the man you nailed to the cross — both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36, New Century Version, emphasis mine)

Jesus Christ as our Savior:

“The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had murdered by hanging Him on a tree. God exalted this man to His right hand as ruler and Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” (Acts 5:30-31, Holman Christian Standard Bible, emphasis mine)

Jesus Christ as the Mediator between man and the one true God:

“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (I Timothy 2:5, NIV, emphasis mine)

That there is only one true God, the Father, thus, Jesus is not the true God, but the Son of the one true God. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself attests that He is indeed a man in nature:

“As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.” (John 8:40 NIV, emphasis mine).

Thus, the Iglesia ni Cristo reject the teaching that Christ is God, or that he was/is Archangel Micheal, or the Trinity or any doctrine which is not found in the Bible.

I believe I should thank you for informing us of your church. I could easily mix you up with the Church of Christ in the USA which does'nt beleive in using musical instruments in worship and the Church of Christ which formally was named the Disciples of Christ.

 

[Muffled]

It would be nice if you don't throw many verses for me to comprehend and others to comprehend what you want to deliver. 1 or 2 would do.
View attachment 17365

One of the verses you used is:

"Therefore I (Jesus) said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM (ego eimi - YAHWEH) you will die in your sins." John 8:24

Jesus said I AM - Hoooray! Jesus is God! Yippeee!

Let us find out, let us extend the verses from the 24th to the 40th so we can really find out the true context. What is the true meaning of "I am he"

John 8:24-40 New International Version (NIV)

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

“Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

“Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.

That is why Jesus said I AM he

I believe I don't know where you are getting this from. Are you suggesting that asking Jesus who He is means that and how would you reason that to be so.

I believe this should be translated "I am" just as it is in v56. There is no precedent for the pronoun "he." The question immediately follows the statement so it is His statement of "I am" that they are bringing into question. I do believe they missed the real meaning of what He was saying but after v56 they understood completely.

I believe that doesn't follow from the premises.

 

[MJFlores]

I believe I should thank you for informing us of your church. I could easily mix you up with the Church of Christ in the USA which does'nt beleive in using musical instruments in worship and the Church of Christ which formally was named the Disciples of Christ.

So they changed the name to Disciples of Christ, a flip flop. Checked them out and they like acappella.
Churches of Christ - Wikipedia

Even the Israelites sang hymns to God using musical instruments.

The thing that separates us from the others is: Jesus is truly a man, not God.

Jesus is not God the Son but the Son of God - that is in the Bible.

 

[MJFlores]

I believe I don't know where you are getting this from. Are you suggesting that asking Jesus who He is means that and how would you reason that to be so.

I believe this should be translated "I am" just as it is in v56. There is no precedent for the pronoun "he." The question immediately follows the statement so it is His statement of "I am" that they are bringing into question. I do believe they missed the real meaning of what He was saying but after v56 they understood completely.

I believe that doesn't follow from the premises.

I AM what? John 8:40
a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.

 

[Kenny]

Jesus is not God the Son but the Son of God - that is in the Bible.

He is the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the Ending(a designation of God)... that also is in the Bible.

You only see what you want to see. Or, you are judging Jesus as The Word when He was made flesh... and forget the before and after. BUT, you already know that.

Sometime you just have to deal with the Truth because it isn't going away.

 

[MJFlores]

He is the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the Ending(a designation of God)... that also is in the Bible.

You only see what you want to see. Or, you are judging Jesus as The Word when He was made flesh... and forget the before and after. BUT, you already know that.

Sometime you just have to deal with the Truth because it isn't going away.

How many gods do you have Ken?
One or Two or Three?
I have one God, KenS and He is the Father.
My God isn't developed from Turkey and He is the God who created everything. When He says one, it is one (not two or three) For God is not the author of confusion 1 Corinthians 14:33.

The question is the Word - is it Jesus Christ?
Or is it about the expectation of Jesus Christ?

Assuming I take your "truth" - the Word is Jesus Christ how would that be?

John 1:1 KenS Version (KSV)

In the beginning was Jesus Christ,
and Jesus Christ was with God,
and Jesus Christ was God

It still does not prove Jesus Christ is God doesn't it?

and Jesus Christ was with God - so he is not God

Like the angels are with God too in the beginning of creation

and Jesus Christ was God - so he is no longer God?

I'm sure you know the use of "was" like Obama was the 44th US President - so he is no longer President.

 

[MJFlores]

He is the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the Ending(a designation of God)... that also is in the Bible.

Just remembered this funny tale about blind men figuring out an elephant. That happens when people jump into conclusions.

Alpha and Omega appears in 3 times in the Book of Revelations

Revelation 1:1-8 New International Version (NIV)

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

John,

To the seven churches in the province of Asia:

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

The Book of Revelations are apocalyptic writings from Jesus Christ which God gave him - The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him - on the first verse there was already a distinction - Jesus Christ is different from God.

Jesus Christ is described as "Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth."

Also Jesus made his servants to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father - see how different Jesus is from his God and Father?

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. (Matthew 16:27)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

On Rev 1:8 - on this particular verse it is the Lord God who is the Alpha and Omega. - not the Lord Jesus Christ.

Moral Lesson: Read the Bible in its whole context and do not easily jump into conclusions.

Even Revelation 21:1-8 and Revelation 22:6-13 is about the Lord God not the Lord Jesus Christ. Read the whole context.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 New International Version (NIV)

For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Now how do you explain that???
The only conclusion is simple the Lord Jesus is different from the Lord God. Jesus is not God.

 

[Kenny]

How many gods do you have Ken?
One or Two or Three?

It seem like we go in circles. We are made in His image and in His likeness.

How many parts to you have? One or Two or Three? Are they different? Do they have different materiality? Do they have different purposes? But how many people are you?

If you make it simple--you can understand truth.

You just have to accept truth.

 

[Kenny]

John 1:1 KenS Version (KSV)

In the beginning was Jesus Christ,
and Jesus Christ was with God,
and Jesus Christ was God

It still does not prove Jesus Christ is God doesn't it?

Actually.... it does. Simple, sweet, complete, no twisting of words and no need to have 5 movies and 15 explanations. It makes every effort of elephantizing it to run away.

 

[MJFlores]

It seem like we go in circles.

I know, it is expected.

Well, I believe the Bible but I suggest you translate John 1:1 to make it clear.

John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Maybe KenS 2017 Translation (KS2017T)

In the beginning was Jesus Christ,
and Jesus Christ was with God,
and Jesus Christ was God.

What do you think? Huh?
That is what you want it done right?
But you really have to explain that with footnotes explaining the translation.

 

[Kenny]

I know, it is expected.
View attachment 17811

Well, I believe the Bible but I suggest you translate John 1:1 to make it clear.

John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Maybe KenS 2017 Translation (KS2017T)

In the beginning was Jesus Christ,
and Jesus Christ was with God,
and Jesus Christ was God.

What do you think? Huh?
That is what you want it done right?
But you really have to explain that with footnotes explaining the translation.

So, you suggest I blacken out or tear out "And the Word was made flesh"?

Uh Oh... I think you are in trouble.

 

[MJFlores]

So, you suggest I blacken out or tear out "And the Word was made flesh"?

Uh Oh... I think you are in trouble.

I like the Bible as it is. The Word is Logos.
Because it was the way the Lord intended.

The Logos was divine [sacred; was God because it came from God].

Logos is God's idea [expectation] about Jesus

Analogy to the Logos = Word

Logos is likened to a blueprint of a bridge

That blueprint of the bridge is the first thing people do before constructing a bridge, isn't it? Then comes the construction.

To the final bridge and we could say the blueprint became a reality.

Same thing is true with Logos = Word

Before creating the world, the heavens and even the angels, God existed. God was all by himself, and he thought about Christ - before creating anything invisible or visible.

Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

All creation, God based on the Logos about Jesus Christ (created through him) and all creation was for Jesus Christ (for him)

Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Why would the apostles preach that Jesus is the firstborn over all creation. on the first place?

And God loved Jesus even before the creation of the world, even before he was born. Everything was made for him and that is the glory God gave to him.

John 17:24
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

And even the members of the Church of Christ is loved before we were born. He chose people in Christ before the creation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

Jesus was chosen before the creation of the world.

1 Peter 1:20
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Who chose Jesus before the creation of the world?
God did it.

If Jesus was God, then there won't be anymore choosing, am I correct?

 

[Muffled]

I AM what? John 8:40
a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.

I believe that is out of context. THe "I am" statement can be viewed in the context of Jesus answering the question in verse 25 "who art thou?" v40 is in the context of Abraham as the father of the Jewish people.

 

[MJFlores]

I believe that is out of context. THe "I am" statement can be viewed in the context of Jesus answering the question in verse 25 "who art thou?" v40 is in the context of Abraham as the father of the Jewish people.

Out of context? Replay!

John 8:25-45 New International Version (NIV)

“Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

“Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!

 

[Muffled]

Out of context? Replay!

View attachment 17854

John 8:25-45 New International Version (NIV)

“Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

“Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!

I believe so and listing a lot of text that you don't understand doesn't change that a bit.

 

[MJFlores]

I believe so and listing a lot of text that you don't understand doesn't change that a bit.

John 9:35-41 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”

“Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”

Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”

Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?”

Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.