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Jesus tells us "Being Gay is Okay" IMHO

Being Gay is Okay

  • Gay NOT Okay

  • Gay IS Okay

  • Gay IS Okay [if no sex]

  • Straight NOT Okay

  • Straight IS Okay

  • Straight IS Okay [if no sex; unless for kids]

  • Marriage is MUST

  • Marriage is FREE

  • Masturbation NOT Okay

  • Masturbation IS Okay


Results are only viewable after voting.

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
But I'm not the one imposing, you are.
WRONG. You tell gay people how to behave, I do not. I just give my interpretation of the Bible [IMHO added]
WRONG. You impose your interpretation of the Bible on others I do not [I use a Disclaimer + IMHO + I believe, which you fail to do]
WRONG. I tell you that you can interpret the Bible as you like, but you can't impose that on me
WRONG. I share my views with Gay people here. None of your business. If I would say "you must become Gay" then you had a point
Did I ever tell you to become Gay? That was rethorical. I did never tell you this. So don't tell other to become someone else.

Christians do have to know to mind their own business. Not my business.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The Christians aren't telling you that you shouldn't be gay, or at least, they shouldn't be telling you that, it's none of their business
Okay, that is also nice to read. So next time a Christian tells me "You as a Hindu/Buddhist go to Hell, I will remind them of that". It did happen over a 25 times to me. I am careful here, because my Master told me not to exaggerate. But I think I heard/read it more than 500 times. 25 just to be on the safe side. I don't want to anger my Guru. He is worse than your God/Jesus [if you don't like giving up stuff]

My Guru told me: No sex, no masturbation, no married life, no alcohol, no meat/animal, no milk, no smoke, no drugs, no lying, no TV, no Film, not too much internet. You see, I do have a few restrictions also [but He also said, you are free to do all this, if you like, but it won't make you happy]. I do these restrictions with pleasure, because they do make me happy. But I am not going around to tell that my restrictions should be yours

How would you feel if I tell you:
Stop sex
Stop masturbation
Stop meat eating [become vegan]
Stop alcohol
Stop drugs
Stop films/internet [just innernet]

That is what I mean. I do not tell you that these are required to please God, to get into heaven.

So I hope this illustrates that I do not impose anything on you

I only tried to take the big guilt feeling the Christians put on Gay people away. Because that is bad, to give others guilt feeling [For hurting none]
 

Earthling

David Henson
So you say. Are you God? At least add to this line "IMHO" or "this is what I believe". That is one of the Rules in RF. Check these Rules please.

But it has nothing to do with my opinion. I can't say something like Buddha was one of the three stooges IMHO. Firstly, because my opinion isn't relevant and secondly because it isn't my opinion. I can say it's okay to be gay IMHO because that is my opinion, but I can't say it's okay to be Christian and gay because my opinion isn't relevant and that isn't my opinion. I can't say that Buddha believed in God, IMHO, I can say my neighbor is an equestrian anus IMHO.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
they are only saying that you can't be a Christian while engaging in homosexual lifestyle.
IMHO: The best way to convey this message is: "I believe that for a Christian it is best to not be engaged in homosexual lifestyle"
If you/Christians would have put it that way, then I would have never felt the need to even create this POST in the first place

Two small additions: IMHO + "I believe that". Is that really too much to ask for.

What is the problem with Christians that they can't use these decency additional words? I don't get it. Why stating your believe as a fact for all to follow?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
But it has nothing to do with my opinion. I can't say something like Buddha was one of the three stooges IMHO. Firstly, because my opinion isn't relevant and secondly because it isn't my opinion. I can say it's okay to be gay IMHO because that is my opinion, but I can't say it's okay to be Christian and gay because my opinion isn't relevant and that isn't my opinion. I can't say that Buddha believed in God, IMHO, I can say my neighbor is an equestrian anus IMHO.
IMHO that is not so nice to say to your neighbor [even did not know the word equestrian and never used the word anus in my life as far as I recall]

Now I understand your dilemma. How to solve this? I know the solution, but not sure if you are interested to hear it.
 

Earthling

David Henson
IMHO: The best way to convey this message is: "I believe that for a Christian it is best to not be engaged in homosexual lifestyle"
If you/Christians would have put it that way, then I would have never felt the need to even create this POST in the first place

Two small additions: IMHO + "I believe that". Is that really too much to ask for.

What is the problem with Christians that they can't use these decency additional words? I don't get it. Why stating your believe as a fact for all to follow?

Fine, how about this - Dharma, I believe IMHO was created by the U.S. army in 1933.
 

Earthling

David Henson
IMHO that is not so nice to say to your neighbor [even did not know the word equestrian and never used the word anus in my life as far as I recall]

Now I understand your dilemma. How to solve this? I know the solution, but not sure if you are interested to hear it.

I'm interested in whatever you have to say.
 

Earthling

David Henson
Okay, that is also nice to read. So next time a Christian tells me "You as a Hindu/Buddhist go to Hell, I will remind them of that". It did happen over a 25 times to me. I am careful here, because my Master told me not to exaggerate. But I think I heard/read it more than 500 times. 25 just to be on the safe side. I don't want to anger my Guru. He is worse than your God/Jesus [if you don't like giving up stuff]

My Guru told me: No sex, no masturbation, no married life, no alcohol, no meat/animal, no milk, no smoke, no drugs, no lying, no TV, no Film, not too much internet. You see, I do have a few restrictions also [but He also said, you are free to do all this, if you like, but it won't make you happy]. I do these restrictions with pleasure, because they do make me happy. But I am not going around to tell that my restrictions should be yours

How would you feel if I tell you:
Stop sex
Stop masturbation
Stop meat eating [become vegan]
Stop alcohol
Stop drugs
Stop films/internet [just innernet]

That is what I mean. I do not tell you that these are required to please God, to get into heaven.

So I hope this illustrates that I do not impose anything on you

I only tried to take the big guilt feeling the Christians put on Gay people away. Because that is bad, to give others guilt feeling [For hurting none]

But see! This is the same thing. Jehovah God told the people of Israel that homosexuality was a crime, punishable by death. The people were all gathered and read this law and they all agreed to it. Now they could leave Israel and go somewhere where homosexuality wasn't against the law and they would be fine. All around them that was the case.

Jesus and Paul said that fornication, which is what homosexuality is, is against the rules of Christianity, so if you want to be gay you can't be a Christian.

Just like your master said stop sex. You can still have sex but not have sex and be fulfilled. Now , what if I told someone that your master thinks that sex, alcohol and drugs will make you happy, IMHO. That would be wrong of me.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Fine, how about this - Dharma, I believe IMHO was created by the U.S. army in 1933.
GREAT. That is all. I respect your opinion. But IMHO it must be a different Dharma then the ones I read about. Although, from 1933 till I was born, they could have easily written the books I thought were ancient scriptures. So you have a point, we never know for sure if we are fooled or not. Unless we are Omniscient.
 

Earthling

David Henson
IMHO that is not so nice to say to your neighbor [even did not know the word equestrian and never used the word anus in my life as far as I recall]

I sort of misused the word equestrian for the sake of humor, but, yeah, you are right, it isn't so nice. It was just an example, not a fact. My neighbors are all nice people.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
But see! This is the same thing. Jehovah God told the people of Israel that homosexuality was a crime, punishable by death. The people were all gathered and read this law and they all agreed to it. Now they could leave Israel and go somewhere where homosexuality wasn't against the law and they would be fine. All around them that was the case.

Jesus and Paul said that fornication, which is what homosexuality is, is against the rules of Christianity, so if you want to be gay you can't be a Christian.

Just like your master said stop sex. You can still have sex but not have sex and be fulfilled. Now , what if I told someone that your master thinks that sex, alcohol and drugs will make you happy, IMHO. That would be wrong of me.
Agreed. If you believe in the Bible and the Bible says "no homosexual actions allowed" you better follow this otherwise you die from guilt probably. But it should be noted that even looking with desire once costs you 1 eye. Good thing is you only do this twice. So we have to admit that not all people follow all rules to a tee.

Knowing this, I believe it is best to always say "I decided to be straight in life, according to how I interpret the Bible". Then you solve the problem "IMHO, or because I believe". Because you must agree that everything we perceive is how we perceive, so our interpretation. If ALL people agree then you might state it as a fact (like 1+1=2, though on RF some even answer 3 or 4 or 5 here].

And furthermore you convey your message of the Bible, without giving the other a sour feeling. And then he does not hate you for that, so he might be more inclined to do as you implicitly suggested. Humans are just known to go left if you tell them right. And you would like to be told in a nice way, giving yourself the opportunity to decide for yourself also I think.
 

Earthling

David Henson
GREAT. That is all. I respect your opinion. But IMHO it must be a different Dharma then the ones I read about. Although, from 1933 till I was born, they could have easily written the books I thought were ancient scriptures. So you have a point, we never know for sure if we are fooled or not. Unless we are Omniscient.

No, I was just using the ridiculous to make a point. I took something that you believe and twisted it to try and help you see my point on Christianity / Homosexuality. Dharma was written about, that is, recorded historically, long before 1933 so my humble opinion would have been wrong.

Everyone has their own opinion, so it's really not necessary to say IMHO. You shouldn't be hurt by other people's opinion because someone might be hurt by your opinion. Eventually we would all have to keep our opinions locked up inside so as not to hurt anyone and that would be far worse. So don't be hurt by other's opinions, but allow those opinions to roll over your back like the wind. Like the wind, opinions can't hurt you if you are not too rigid or not too fragile.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Jesus and Paul said that fornication, which is what homosexuality is, is against the rules of Christianity, so if you want to be gay you can't be a Christian.
Just for my information. I even didn't know the word fornication, so looked it up. Sex between people not married Google gave. So when 2 (fe)male marry than it is okay according to the Bible?
 

Earthling

David Henson
Just for my information. I even didn't know the word fornication, so looked it up. Sex between people not married Google gave. So when 2 (fe)male marry than it is okay according to the Bible?

No, not according to the Bible. But if the 2 females don't follow the Bible then it's up to them.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Just like your master said stop sex. You can still have sex but not have sex and be fulfilled. Now, what if I told someone that your master thinks that sex, alcohol and drugs will make you happy, IMHO. That would be wrong of me.
No that would be correct of you, because you added IMHO.

That is why many Muslims add "In shāʾa llāh" and in Holland they say "Deo Volente". I think you can compare it that way. My Guru made it very clear to me. I once made a promise to God but could not keep it, and my Guru said "You better die than not keep your promise". So I am very careful with what I promise or say. So to claim "The Bible says this or that" I dare not even go there, because my Guru will beat me up in my dreams. That's why I use "Deo Volente" or on the Forum IMHO and I believe".
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
No, not according to the Bible. But if the 2 females don't follow the Bible then it's up to them.
Okay thanks. Then probably better for them not even to try to follow the Bible.

I tried to find the definition of fornication in the Bible, but didn't find it. I did find an interesting verse "1 Corinthians 5:9-11" though.
Google gives:
Fornication=2 unmarried humans having sex
adultary=1 or both married to another
You claim the Bible says different [Would you be so nice to give me the verse with the Bible definition of Fornication? Or is it a mix of verses?]

I remember my Master telling "If God had to kill all the bad people, then no one would be spared today". No surprise to me.
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
No, I was just using the ridiculous to make a point. I took something that you believe and twisted it to try and help you see my point on Christianity / Homosexuality. Dharma was written about, that is, recorded historically, long before 1933 so my humble opinion would have been wrong.
Yes I understood that. And I went along to try and help you see my point: "phrasing in such a way that it does not hurt the other".

Everyone has their own opinion, so it's really not necessary to say IMHO. You shouldn't be hurt by other people's opinion because someone might be hurt by your opinion. Eventually we would all have to keep our opinions locked up inside so as not to hurt anyone and that would be far worse. So don't be hurt by other's opinions, but allow those opinions to roll over your back like the wind. Like the wind, opinions can't hurt you if you are not too rigid or not too fragile.

Of course this is all true. BUT why phrase it in a hurtful way, when it can be done in a respectful way?

I met people hurt by their father use the hurtful way not the IMHO way. It's like "people have hurt me, now I am grown up, so I call the shots. It's my right".

My father is like that. In my house he urinates like a dog to mark his territory. If I say STOP he replies "You are my son, you have life thanks to me, be grateful and just accept how I am. I don't do what you tell me to do [even if it's your house]. If you have a problem with that ... that is your problem, solve it". For the rest he is okay, he means well. Just has some emotional unsolved issues from the war I think. And suffers from an immense ego. That is all. Always helping others and stuff.

For many years I tried to roll it of my back, now solved it. I told him I never want to see you again, not even come to your funeral, unless you go on your knees and apologize. I used to be scared for him, became a pleaser. But the good thing is, I did never anything wrong to him. So I can look God in the eye, and be in the clear.

But I made a decision to be nice to people. Not to become like my father. Never to belittle another. That is what my father did.
 
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Earthling

David Henson
Agreed. If you believe in the Bible and the Bible says "no homosexual actions allowed" you better follow this otherwise you die from guilt probably.

Yes, and more importantly you may very likely miss the opportunity to live forever in paradise on Earth without sin, sickness, old age, death, etc. You would miss out on everlasting life in the way God originally intended it for Adam.

But it should be noted that even looking with desire once costs you 1 eye. Good thing is you only do this twice. So we have to admit that not all people follow all rules to a tee.

People tend to want to think the rules don't apply to them, IMHO. They think that God is good in the way they want him to be, or think he should be. That's bad. That's exactly what Adam did that got us in this mess in the first place. Atheists don't believe the Bible so they think everyone should ignore it. Make it go away. If the Bible says you shouldn't lie, steal, cheat, murder that's okay, but if it says you shouldn't do something they think is okay Christians should allow it because they think the Bible isn't real.

Knowing this, I believe it is best to always say "I decided to be straight in life, according to how I interpret the Bible".

I do say that pretty much in those words, all the time.

Then you solve the problem "IMHO, or because I believe". Because you must agree that everything we perceive is how we perceive, so our interpretation. If ALL people agree then you might state it as a fact (like 1+1=2, though on RF some even answer 3 or 4 or 5 here].

This is because RF knows people disagree. Their job is to keep the peace, not discover one truth above another. Except for science. If you are a science minded atheist you don't have to say IMHO because science is never wrong until it comes up with something new.

And furthermore you convey your message of the Bible, without giving the other a sour feeling. And then he does not hate you for that, so he might be more inclined to do as you implicitly suggested. Humans are just known to go left if you tell them right. And you would like to be told in a nice way, giving yourself the opportunity to decide for yourself also I think.

You forgot to say IMHO. Sometimes I do say IMHO, but I think it's pretty much implicit most of the time. But like I explained throughout this thread, sometimes it isn't accurate or honest to say IMHO, so people have to realize that and not be offended. We could all live together without getting bent out of shape or telling someone else their opinion is not acceptable because it isn't popular with everyone. It's kind of like democracy. The country I live in is supposed to be a Republic, which means no one can take away the rights of another, but they changed it illegally to a democracy, which means 51% of the people can take the rights of the rest away. Not that that is real, because the 1% decide everything and the 99% are screwed, but I digress.
 
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