1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Jesus - Son of Adam?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by nPeace, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,773
    Ratings:
    +1,324
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    I created this thread in response to something @LightofTruth said, which I don't fully understand the point being made, but hope to get clarity on.
    According to the scriptures, Jesus Christ, is the son of God - not born from any seed of man.
    Because Jesus existed in heaven before, his life could be transferred to the womb of the Jewish virgin, Mary, to grow to a child, and be born to grow as a man, on earth.
    Since Jesus was not born from imperfect seed, like all mankind born through Adam, he did not inherit the defect passed on by Adam to all mankind (Romans 5:12). Thus Jesus was sinless (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 7:26), not subject to imperfections Adam's offspring bear.

    Did I leave out anything? Can't seem to think of anything, other than... Jesus is the second Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45), because as a perfect man, like Adam, he "brings forth" sons, for everlasting life, releasing them from sin and death. (Colossians 1:21, 22)
     
  2. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,028
    Ratings:
    +573
    Religion:
    agnostic
    Find a shred of evidence for original sin in the Old Testament.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,773
    Ratings:
    +1,324
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    I assume you are referring to original sin on earth. (Genesis 3:6)
     
  4. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,028
    Ratings:
    +573
    Religion:
    agnostic
    Where is this notion found in the OT?
     
  5. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    Messages:
    731
    Ratings:
    +56
    Religion:
    Christian
    God The Son existed eternally with the Father and Holy Spirit. God The Son became a Man, Whom we know as Jesus Christ. Thus Jesus was born of the seed of the woman, not the man.

    Yes, the Son was placed in the womb of Mary, and the Holy Spirit was busy in the creation of the Body given to Christ. (Luke 1:35) Yes, this made Jesus sinless as he was not stained with the sin of Adam.

    Jesus is the 'Last Adam', not the 'Second Adam'. He is the 'Second Man', but the 'Last Adam'. This is an important point. (1 Cor. 15:45-47)

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  6. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,226
    Ratings:
    +440
    Religion:
    christian
    Jesus is a man, son of Adam, Christ existed before Adam and Adam was created through Christ, Jesus became Christ Jesus, one , when Christ entered Jesus, at baptism. The first Adam was a Soul man - translated natural, Second Adam became pneumatic - spiritual. This is archetypical resurrection of spiritually dead.
     
  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,773
    Ratings:
    +1,324
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    I assume you are asking, where in the so called O.T. do we find anything saying that the Messiah would be sinless.
    Why do you think it should be specifically mentioned? (Romans 16:25-27; Ephesians 3:4-7)
     
  8. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,773
    Ratings:
    +1,324
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Yes, there will be no more Adams, after Christ. Stated correctly, Jesus is the last Adam. :)
    He is also the second. Not so?
    What if you met a child, say seven, or eight years of age, who said that to you, what would be your response to them?
    I would commend the child, It is correct.

    First, second, third, forth...
    After first is second, correct?
    Last means nothing after, correct?
    So we know that we don't count past the second, because the second is the last. Correct?

    Please go to the second house on entering Workman Street.
    But sir, this is the last house.
    How did you know I meant the last house?
    Sir, because you said the second house, and the second house is the last house.
    Oh. Perhaps I should have said, 'Please go to the last house on entering Workman Street'.

    Glad to see you are sticking to what is written though. The scriptures say 'last Adam'. :)
    You said, God the son. I believe you also believe there is God the Holy Spirit.
    I don't see these written in scripture, so using your argument, would you accept that there is no God the Holy Spirit? :)
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,773
    Ratings:
    +1,324
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Son of Adam traced through his Adoptive father. True.
     
  10. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,226
    Ratings:
    +440
    Religion:
    christian
    Adoptive Father? Creator God? Technically Adam did not father.
     
  11. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,919
    Ratings:
    +712
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    The fact people die means it is passed on. If it wasn't passed on then how come people aren't immortal?
     
  12. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,925
    Ratings:
    +2,121
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    I would agree... the only thing I would rephrase, "Because Jesus existed in heaven as The Word before, his life could be transferred to the womb of the Jewish virgin, Mary, to grow to a child, and be born to grow as a man, on earth."

    Indeed, Second Adam, for only these two bodies were created without sin.
     
  13. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,925
    Ratings:
    +2,121
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    In Christian understanding, because the land was cursed after Adam sinned. Adam was created before the curse and Jesus was created/prepared by the living word of God. Not by the normal means but by the power of God. Every other person is created by cursed ground and thus death has a hold on the body.

    Jesus could not die for two reasons: 1) no sin 2) not made from cursed ground.

    Heb 10:5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

    Luke 1:37-38 T(TPT) 37 Not one promise from God is empty of power, for nothing is impossible with God!
    Amplified 37 For with God nothing is ever impossible and no word from God shall be without power or impossible of fulfillment.
     
    #13 KenS, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  14. susanblange

    susanblange Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2019
    Messages:
    328
    Ratings:
    +73
    Religion:
    Jewish/New Age
    Genesis 3:15 sums up the Bible. Adam is the serpent, and the father of the wicked. Jesus is his "one seed". Adam was the Tree of (carnal) Knowledge and the serpent was part of his anatomy. The true Messiah is the second and one seed of Eve. The name means "life" or "living" and Eve was the Tree of Life, she is the mother of the righteous. In the next generation, Cain succeeded Adam, and Abel succeeded Eve. Abel was replaced by Seth. Genesis 4:25. Eve is blamed for the sin of the world. Isaiah 53:6. "...and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all". Adam is responsible for all the sin in the world.
     
  15. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,028
    Ratings:
    +573
    Religion:
    agnostic
    Because they never were.

    At any rate, where is the doctrine of inherited damnation for Adam's sin found in the OT?
     
  16. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,919
    Ratings:
    +712
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    The fact is we die and there must be a reason. Theologically speaking. So we must be guilty. God's not unjust. The OT scriptures indicate that all people are under great darkness which is also called the "shadow of death". Which gets into why Jesus is called the "Light of Life" but I digress.

    Psalm 51:5 seems to indicate that people are born in sin. Other scriptures have a similar outlook.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,773
    Ratings:
    +1,324
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Technically Adam did not father!? [​IMG]
    Could you explain, please.

    Confirmed. :D
     
  18. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,226
    Ratings:
    +440
    Religion:
    christian
    sorry, physical Adam technically did not have a father, that what it supposed to say.
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,773
    Ratings:
    +1,324
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Good point.
    Actually I was thinking about Abel's offer to God. He certainly knew something about the results of his dad's disobedience.

    Also, the atonement sacrifices certainly show that man needed a redeemer and savior. Those had meaning, and as you said, the scriptures reveal that sin was the reason.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    27,318
    Ratings:
    +15,160
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Somehow that became Christian dogma, even though Jesus himself was against the idea.
     
Loading...