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Jesus' Sins

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Ryan2065, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Did I say that only one person told me? This is a perfect example of when you shouldnt ASSUME. :) I can remember 5 different theology teachers telling me this out of the 12 theology teachers I have had. They probably all went to the same conference or something that told them that.
     
  2. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Maybe you heard what you WANTED to hear. I can think of no Catholic teaching nor any scripture that supports this. Perhaps you could supply some actual documentation for your contentions.
     
  3. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    You call my best friend a bigot, the man who doesn't see the color of a man's skin, and you expect me to just agree with your garbage? You have tried unsuccessfully to assassinate the character of the ONE MAN who taught us that we are ALL equal before God and you expect a pat on the back? You are way out of touch with reality my friend.

    I tell you what though... you go through just one year without sinning and without having one bigoted moment and I will worship you instead. My guess is that you don't make it for an hour.
     
  4. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I don't know why you get so upset NetDoc - that is just allowing yourself to be led; I don't honestly think that an atheist has the remotest clue of the implication of his words. Despite his ignorance, we should still Love him, and show him by example..........:)
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I love my kids, even when I am angry.

    However, don't mistake my passion in defending the truth as being angry. It's merely a feint to draw attention away from the howling inconsistencies in his arguments.
     
  6. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I'm surprised that you are calling the Jesus a racist. After all, he did bring peace in tearing down the partition separating Jew and Gentile. And it was clear that God no longer held one person or group of persons in higher esteem than any other. As Peter observed, much to his amazement, at Cornelius' house, as recorded in Acts 10:34, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons". Jesus Christ had caused all people, Gentile and Jew, to be equal before God. Wasn't it by his sacrifice, Jesus brought about the tearing of the veil between the court of Israel and the Holy of Holies, and he also destroyed the temple's separation between Gentiles and Jews? Besides, not only were the Gentiles enmity to God but Israel also was enmity to Him. Both needs reconciled before God. Actually it's wrong for me to use the word "both" because there is no more separation. There is no more Jew and no more Gentile. Heck, there is no longer male or female. Go figure that one out.
     
  7. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    What on Earth are you talking about ? - where did anyone call Jesus a racist - please point me to that statement.:areyoucra
     
  8. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    The very first poster.
     
  9. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    The reason I asked why people were getting so angry is because you were getting angry and no longer debating, you were argueing. DeepShadow is the only one here who actually debated the racist comment and debated it quite successfully. Here is the origional statement that apparently made so many people angry...
    First off, no matter how much "spin" you say I put on this NetDoc, the fact remains that I presented both sides of the story. If you had actually read what I said, the two reasons why I stated Jesus was argueable a racist was the fact that he a) called the person a dog, and b) refused to heal them at first. The way to debate this is to show me that neither of these are racist. DeepShadow did this when they showed that in that time Jesus actually referred to the woman as a little dog and that was a good thing back then. The second part still needs to be debated. I'll give you a hint on how to debate this, show me a time where a Jewish person asked for healing and did not recieve it the first time, or show me a time where a Gentile asked for healing and got it right away. I looked, I could not find any specific references to that.

    And please don't think these ideas are unfounded. If you had a doctor who was white and healed 19 white people, but made 1 black person beg before they could be healed, you would be the first to call that doctor racist.
     
  10. Sabio

    Sabio Active Member

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    Ryan,

    Are you stating it as fact that Jesus did all of these miracles?

    Sabio
     
  11. Sabio

    Sabio Active Member

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    I hear teenagers saying "what up dog" all the time, I don't think of them as racists...

    Sabio
     
  12. Sabio

    Sabio Active Member

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    Ryan,

    Here is an example of Jesus lack of racism...

    Sabio


    John 4

    A Samaritan Woman Meets Her Messiah

    1 Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2 (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), 3 He left Judea and departed again to Galilee. 4 But He needed to go through Samaria.
    5 So He came to a city of Samaria which is called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6 Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied from His journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour.
    7 A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8 For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.
    9 Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.
    10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
    11 The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? 12 Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?”
    13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
    15 The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw.”
    16 Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.”
    17 The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.”
    Jesus said to her, “You have well said, ‘I have no husband,’ 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly.”
    19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
    21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
    25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
    26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
     
  13. DeepShadow

    DeepShadow White Crow

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    Does this qualify? From Matthew 8:

    Not only does Jesus heal the servant of a centurion (a soldier for the state that most Jews at the time considered oppressive), but he commends him for his faith and suggests he will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven before the children of the kingdom (i.e. the House of Israel)
     
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  14. DreamQuickBook

    DreamQuickBook Active Member

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    wow... I forgot these verses. Do you believe that Salvation is of the Jews?
     
  15. Sabio

    Sabio Active Member

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    Yes, of the Jews and Gentiles, you forgot verses 14-16

    14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
    15 The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw.”
    16 Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.”
     
  16. DeepShadow

    DeepShadow White Crow

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    I just realized you already commented on this passage, Ryan, but apparently you missed the fact that his was a Roman centurion. It's an easy mistake to make, becaus ethe author seems to take it for granted and doesn't point it out heavily. However, it seems apparent that the man was a non-Jew, because why else would there be the commentary of his faith exceeding that of the house of Israel?
     
  17. DeepShadow

    DeepShadow White Crow

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    I sure do. To avoid derailing this debate, if you have any further comments, let's move it ot another thread, or send me an IM.
     
  18. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Sabio and DeepShadow have show scripture that shows that Jesus was not a racist. Now, we have one more question to address.

    When Jesus refused to heal the woman, was this because of race? And if he refused to heal her because she was a different race than Jesus, does that mean that it was a racist act? And if it was a racist act, does that mean it was a sin? Are racist acts considered sins?

    The reason I want to bring these statements up is for one simple fact. The bible only tells us of Jesus' miracles, not of the times he disagrees to do miracles. There could be other times that Jesus refused to do miracles and race could have played a huge role in who he decided to heal and who he did not decide to heal. This is pure speculation and can not be proved true or false (well I don't think it can be proved false, anyone care to try?)
     
  19. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    That is a fable, not a fact. Asking us when did Jesus stop beating Mary would have been more sincere. You have only cast aspersions with NOTHING but verses taken out of context. You DELIBERATELY left off the two last verses where Jesus healed the lady in question. Why? You have an axe to grind, and that sort of agenda should be exposed whenever possible. You call this "anger" when incredulity is far closer to the the truth. I have called you on your lies and distortions and you call it anger: how convenient. Instead of admitting your error, you cast more aspersions, but on me this time. Don't play me a fool and expect me to accept your arrogance.
     
  20. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    He didn't refuse to heal ANYONE. She was healed was she not? Did he say "I refuse to heal you!"??? No. Please stop lying about what happened here. Thanks in advance.
     
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