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Featured Jesus' Second Coming

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, May 4, 2018.

  1. Furchizedek

    Furchizedek Member

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    Very good. Thank you. :grinning:
     
  2. Furchizedek

    Furchizedek Member

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    Well, it's wrong, IMO.
     
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  3. Furchizedek

    Furchizedek Member

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    know. I agree. It is repugnant (IMO). But it's not my idea.

    No argument here.

    Probably not. That's probably just your Christian, doctrines of men, belief. The Jews don't agree with your Christian doctrines of the second coming, and it's THEIR book that you're getting the "prophecies" from. Here's something a bible scholar says about "prophecy."

    The writings of the prophets are among the most misunderstood parts of the Bible today, in no small measure because they are commonly read out of context." Many people today, especially conservative Christians, read the prophets as if they were crystal-ball gazers predicting events that are yet to transpire in our own time, more than two thousand years removed from when the prophets were actually speaking. This is a completely egocentric approach to the Bible (it's all about me!). But the biblical writers had their own contexts and, as a result, their own agendas. And those contexts and agendas are not ours. The prophets were not concerned about us; they were concerned about themselves and the people of God living in their own time. It is no wonder that most people who read the prophets this way (they've predicted the conflict in the Middle East! they foresaw Saddam Hussein! they tell us about Armageddon!) simply choose, to read one or another verse or passage in isolation, and do not read the prophets themselves in their entirety. When the prophets are read from beginning to end, it is clear that they are writing for their-own times. They often, in, fact, tell us exactly when they were writing-for example, under what king(s)-so that their readers can understand the historical situation they were so intent on addressing. - Excerpt from "God's Problem" by Bart Ehrman

    Sorry if I forgot to say IMO. Let me be perfectly clear, It's my opinion that Jesus is not coming back anytime soon.

    I suggest that you read The Urantia Book.

    176:2.8 Of all the discourses which the Master gave his apostles, none ever became so confused in their minds as this one, given this Tuesday evening on the Mount of Olives, regarding the twofold subject of the destruction of Jerusalem and his own second coming. There was, therefore, little agreement between the subsequent written accounts based on the memories of what the Master said on this extraordinary occasion. Consequently, when the records were left blank concerning much that was said that Tuesday evening, there grew up many traditions; and very early in the second century a Jewish apocalyptic about the Messiah written by one Selta, who was attached to the court of the Emperor Caligula, was bodily copied into the Matthew Gospel and subsequently added (in part) to the Mark and Luke records. It was in these writings of Selta that the parable of the ten virgins appeared. No part of the gospel record ever suffered such confusing misconstruction as this evening’s teaching.

    It doesn't sound as though you know your bible very well (IMO).

    (Psa_90:4) For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
    (2Pe_3:8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
     
  4. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Seeing you can't put it together.
    While Jesus was here on earth, Jesus was of flesh and blood and bones.
     
  5. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think the thousand year concept applies here ? He said he would be dead 3 days, that means he still has almost a thousand years to go.

    Since the Jews missed the Messiah, I would contend that their record of understanding prophecy, then, or now, isn´t very good.

    Sigh, your book holds very little interest to me. The world is full of like documents written long after the events. The first non Canonical Gospel was written about 200 AD, while the Canonical Gospels were in writing by 100 AD.

    If you can provide me a provenance by reputable scholars of this book, especially itś date of writing, that piques my interest, iĺl take a look at it.
     
  6. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant reply, you are a real Biblical scholar, aren´t you ? Are you blind ?
     
  7. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Go
    Good point ! The book is not linear, as you say, it goes back and forth, sometimes with different symbols for the same thing.
     
  8. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. No. No.
     
    #68 stvdv, May 6, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  9. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Revelation never goes backwards in time.
    Revelation is all future events to happen.
    Which is still future from us.

    As to who told you that Revelation goes backwards in time. Revelation is all about future events, Which is still future from us.

    Revelation 6:12,13, Are in reference to Satan and his angels.
    The 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial = 666
    Which is in reference to Satan and his angels.

    The 7th seal, 7th trump, 7th vial = 777
    Which is in reference to Christ Jesus.

    Do you understand what the
    3 Woe Trumpets represents. And what happens when the 3 Woe trumpets begin to sound in Revelation 8:13.

    If you had notice in Luke 10:18, Jesus said "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven"
    Jesus never implied as Satan falling from heaven right then.
    Jesus said he beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven, But didn't say right then.
    Maybe you should read Luke 10:18 again
    And show as to where Jesus said anything about Satan and his angels as falling from heaven right then.
    Jesus never said right then or said anything about when Satan falling from heaven.

    Jesus was giving Prophecy about Satan falling from heaven.

    Unto which Satan and his angels are not cast out of heaven, Until the 6th seal and
    6th trumpet is sounded, Then Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. Which is still future from us.

    Note that in Revelation 12:7-12. That this is when Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. This is when the 6th seal is opened and the 6th trumpet is sounded.
    Which is still future from us.

    And as for Matthew 24, has nothing to do with political events.
    Matthew 24 is all about future events, that is still future from us.
    As to where do you come up with all of this, As to who told you these things.
     
  10. outlawState

    outlawState Deism is dead

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    How do you know? Revelation is clearly a "series" of visisons, some say eight visions. Different aspects are described in different ways. Any rule that says there must be a logical progression onward towards infinity cannot be made a subject of dogmatizing.


    Pure conjecture on your part. The OT analogy is to worldly potentates where the sun and the moon are also included.

    Again not true. 666 is man's number. Revelation 13:17–18

    Rather I think that "Satan as lightning fall from heaven" may be an extended process, i.e. figurative for his dethronement at the hands of the son of God. It may be a duty of the church to ensure his remaining in the abyss.


    I do not believe so. I believe that satan is being resurrected from the abyss at the present time. Revelation 20:3. One must construe the spread of Christianity in the last 2000 years and the suppression of paganism as satan being bound. Now however he is beginning to be unbound.

    Satan may appear to be enthroned at present, but when considering history, it is clear that for much of the past 1000 years, Europe has been christianized, even if imperfectly. I do not believe he should be considered as seated in heaven. I do not believe that Christ was merely prophesying. It was not the context of what he said.

    I think that it is a well accepted interpretation of Matt 24 that it refers to the destruction of the 2nd temple AD70. Well accepted across many denominations. How can you possibly not be aware of such a thing? Yet it is a dual prophesy as it also refers to the end of the age.
     
  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
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    It is not reincarnation because He has not taken up a new body of flesh. He is still the same Jesus that was born to Mary, was crucified, died and came back to life. It is the same flesh throughout and the same flesh when He comes again.

    The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit, as I understand it. Different Persons of the Trinity.

    No. He was before Abraham because the Person of the Son is eternal, existing before all ages.
     
  12. Furchizedek

    Furchizedek Member

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    Qualifier: Everything I write is my opinion and/or my beliefs.

    When he was here talking to us, 3 days is three of our days. When he's not here, when he's in Heaven or Paradise or wherever he stays, the time there is much slower. God probably lives in a deep gravity well, perhaps in an area surrounded by black holes. Did you see the movie Interstellar? In a deep gravity well time would move much slower. Also, probably only spirit beings can approach it, flesh and blood bodies cannot go there.

    I'm not sure what you're talking about. The Jews don't think they missed the Messiah. And maybe they didn't. Jesus indicated that he was not the Messiah, here:

    Mat 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
    Mat 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
    Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
    Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
    Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
    Mat 22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

    Jesus can be the Son of God and NOT be the Messiah.

    And I don't know what prophecy has to do with the thousand years on earth is like a day in Heaven deal.

    That's fine with me. My job is to tell people about it. After that, it's up to them, whatever they choose to do. Lead a horse to water, can't make it drink, deal.

    Well, we don't think that's what happened here. The Urantia Book claims to be from the records that God's angels keep of God's doings on earth. If that's true, then it predates the human records. It would hardly have made sense to put it on sheepskin scrolls 2000 years ago. We believe the celestials began planning for the book about the time the printing press was invented. And it took them about a half day to get the job done, a half day of their time, which was 500 or so years of our time.

    Interesting, but nothing to do with The Urantia Book.

    No, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Have you ever heard that? I'm not in the convincing business. We have a saying, "You have to read it to believe it." It's up to you. That's it.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    As to how do I know that Revelation does not go backwards in time, By listening to what Christ Jesus has to say in Revelation, That's how I know the book of Revelation does not go backwards in time.

    Maybe if you spent more time in listening to what Christ Jesus has to say in the book of Revelation, Instead of listening what man's teachings has to say.
    Christ Jesus condemned man's teachings and doctrines, in Matthew 15:7-9.

    It's not Pure conjecture, It's all about who you choose to listen to ( God ) or ( man )
    It's that simple. It's evidence that you choose to listen to man's teachings about the book of Revelation, And not listen to what Christ Jesus has sat down in the book of Revelation.

    If you haven't notice, God himself has already given the interpretation of all things in the book of Revelation.
    But you wouldn't know this, For it's evidence who you have chosen to listen to more of man's teachings, Than you do what Christ Jesus teaches.

    Had you read Revelation 13:17-18, more carefully, You may have found out in
    Verse 18 saying ( here is wisdom ) Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.

    Have you any idea who the beast is ?
    Have you any idea what the number of the beast is ?
    Have you any idea what the number of a man is ?

    Further more God has given in the book of Revelation what the number 666, stands to represents.

    When you say ( I think ) what your actually saying is, your not sure of yourself.

    If you look at when I speak, not one time do I ever say ( I think ) Why because I am sure about what I am saying that's why,
    I never say ( I think ) because that's saying your not sure of yourself, Like doing nothing but guessing.

    You see I'm always sure of myself, Because I listen more to what Christ Jesus has to say, Than what man's teachings will say.
    Therefore I'm more sure of myself what Christ Jesus has to say.

    There's only one time when Satan and his angels are finally cast out of heaven, Which God has given in the book of Revelation.

    Unto which hasn't happened Yet, not until the 6th seal and 6th trumpet is sounded,
    Unto which starts the Tribulation.
    But you wouldn't know this, because you chosen to listen to man's teachings, Than what Christ Jesus has to say in the book of Revelation.

    Look that of Revelation 20:3, has not happened yet. Not until after Christ Jesus has come and Michael the Archangel takes hold of Satan and locks Satan up in the bottomless pit, For a thousand years.
    Then after the thousand years have expired then Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations, Which are in the four quarters of the earth. Revelation 20:7-8.

    Do you have any idea what the four quarters of the earth Represents ?

    Satan has no seat in heaven, But Satan and his angels are in heaven and will be cast out of heaven real soon. Revelation 12:7-12.

    If you understood the book of Revelation, What God has given in the book of Revelation.
    Alot of people make this one mistake of going into the book of Revelation, Trying to interpret the book of Revelation themselves.
    Not realizing Christ Jesus has already given the interpretation himself.

    As for Matthew 24, has nothing to do with any second temple, That's all man's teachings, Which Christ Jesus condemned man's teachings in Matthew 15:7-9.

    As you said, As to how can I not be aware of such things.
    Maybe it's because I chose to listen more to what Christ Jesus has sat down, and not what man's teachings will say.

    Maybe, just maybe, If you, yourself took to listening more to what Christ Jesus has to say, You just might get some where.
    Than listening to what man's teachings will say.
    You see, you accept what all these denominations will say, which is man's teachings, Over what Christ Jesus will say.

    Let's for say, the majority of these denominations, that you listen to, are not always right
    You know it was the majority of the people who crucified Christ Jesus, But yet there was only the disciples and women looking on afar off, Whom was Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James the less,
    And Jose's and Salome. Mark 15:40.

    So who do you suppose was right,
    The Majority or the few who stood by Christ Jesus ?
    As it is the Majority was not right.
    As you think the Majority is right, Maybe you should rethink that one. Seeing it was only a few who stood by Christ Jesus and the Majority who crucified Christ Jesus.
     
    #73 Faithofchristian, May 7, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  14. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Just so we're perfectly clear on this, when you speak, or write, you do not think.
     
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  15. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Good. Better give that up before you get that way.
    I am curious, who is "we" ?
     
  16. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    so god is a respecter of person when it comes to jesus vs someone else?

    Tools
    Verse page
    " data-hasqtip="6" aria-describedby="qtip-6" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(57, 84, 127); transition: color 0.2s ease-in-out; font-size: 15px; font-weight: 700;">Job 34:19
    Verse Concepts

    Who shows no partiality to princes Nor regards the rich above the poor, For they all are the work of His hands?

    Acts 10:34
    [ Preaching to Cornelius’ Household ] Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.

    Romans 2:11
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
     
  17. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Just so we're perfectly clear on this.

    This is indicating, They only think it may go this way, showing they are not sure of themselves as to which way it may go.

    A whole lot different then thinking about writing and what I may think to myself.
    But to come right out and say to someone
    ( I think )
    which makes them look as though their not sure about what they are going to say.

    Showing there are different terminology in using ( I think )

    Can you show one book and chapter and verse, As to where any of the Prophets, has ever said, ( I think )
    And why not, All because when a Prophet speaks they are sure of themselves as to what their going to say.
    And not say ( I think ) God may want you to do it his way.
    That's showing they are not sure if God want you to do it his way.

    A Prophet is always sure of themselves, on what they are going to say.
     
  18. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    That is not proof. Maybe you were there [in another reincarnation] as an editor and took out all the "I think".
     
  19. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not to you, but for me it's all proof.
     
  20. outlawState

    outlawState Deism is dead

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    The woman's "male child" is a reference to Jesus (Revelation 12:5), from Wikipedia. This is a very widespread interpretation. But you deny it.

    Yet you do not have a direct telephone line to Jesus Christ. You have to interpret Revelation like everyone else. There are schools of interpretation. To cut a long story short, why not tell us what school of interpretation you support with an internet reference where I can examine it further?


    That is clearly not true. Revelation is full of symbolism, much of it taken from and found in the Old Testament. Such as the "mark of the beast" refers to the mark of cain.

    Well unlike you I do not spend my life pontificating over Revelation. I broadly accept the historist school, such as Rev 9 refering to Islam etc, and much of what precedes that referring to events in the Roman Empire. It is a while since I last looked at Revelation, so that is why I appear unsure.

    You're not a humble person then. So many have tried to interpret Revelation and so many have not quite suceeded. Why are you unique in that respect ?

    The problem with those who say that tribulation is future, is that they ignore all the tribulation in the last 2000 years. I am quite certain that if you were in a concentration camp right now, you would change your opinion as to tribulation being in the future.


    It's a traditional way of describing the whole world, based on Mesopotamian cosmology, i.e. four rivers flowing out of the garden of Eden.

    Yes but you haven't explained why the apostles say that Christ has already triumped over satan. Colossians 2:15. So how can he be in heaven?

    Well Matt 24 is quite an apt description of the fall of the 2nd temple.

    I accept that men are not always right, but these matters have been studied for a long time and a consensus has been reached on them. I do respect authorities, although I may disagree with them. You don't seem to respect anyone but yourself.
     
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