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Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

So which baptism do you choose?

#1. Water baptism
#2. Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Neither and all... If we are talking about one, I prefer the one baptism that happens when you give your life to Jesus and become one with the Body of Christ:

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

That being said... I also agree with being baptized in water. Yet, just as important being baptized into the dunamis of God:

Acts 8: 12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,

Believe first (Baptism into the body of Christ) - by the power of the Holy Spirit
Baptized in water second - by the act of other believers
Baptized in the dunamis of the Holy Spirit - by the act of Jesus

You can go to Heaven without the dunamis of the Holy Spirit.
You can be saved without the baptism in water
But you cannot be washed and born again without faith in the blood and name of Jesus.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
Neither and all... If we are talking about one, I prefer the one baptism that happens when you give your life to Jesus and become one with the Body of Christ:

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

That being said... I also agree with being baptized in water. Yet, just as important being baptized into the dunamis of God:

Acts 8: 12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,

Believe first (Baptism into the body of Christ) - by the power of the Holy Spirit
Baptized in water second - by the act of other believers
Baptized in the dunamis of the Holy Spirit - by the act of Jesus

You can go to Heaven without the dunamis of the Holy Spirit.
You can be saved without the baptism in water
But you cannot be washed and born again without faith in the blood and name of Jesus.


*
So you are going to set aside (Eph. 4:5) and the one baptism and hold on to two baptisms regardless of what the word of God says. (one baptism for today)

That is amazing but not surprising.

I see this attitude towards the scriptures alot.

(1Cor.12:13) is not a Holy Spirit baptism. It is a baptism done in water according to the instruction of the Lord to enter the body of Christ (the church). Note (Acts 2:38,47)

(Heb.10:8) can help us to understand (1Cor.12:13)..

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

No one would claim this verse is saying the law got up and offered a sacrifice. That is not what it's speaking about, rather the people offered sacrifices according to how the OT Law demanded.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Thanks. There are actually many more websites that say the same thing. I never studied this verse in light of the Greek, but sure enough, it does say grace is the gift, not the faith. Now I know. At least I think I do. :)

I think another relevant verse to the discussion is in Romans.

Rom 10:10,

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
This doesn't say the we are made righteous by believing. That would be the Greek word dia which in broad terms indicated agency, through or by whom something was done. The words "unto" are the Greek word eis which indicates that our believing takes us to a place, the sphere, where God does the work of making us righteous. Of course He has already done that through (dia) the works of Jesus, the agent through whom God accomplished His goal.

God bless.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
Thanks. There are actually many more websites that say the same thing. I never studied this verse in light of the Greek, but sure enough, it does say grace is the gift, not the faith. Now I know. At least I think I do. :)

I think another relevant verse to the discussion is in Romans.

Rom 10:10,

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
This doesn't say the we are made righteous by believing. That would be the Greek word dia which in broad terms indicated agency, through or by whom something was done. The words "unto" are the Greek word eis which indicates that our believing takes us to a place, the sphere, where God does the work of making us righteous. Of course He has already done that through (dia) the works of Jesus, the agent through whom God accomplished His goal.

God bless.

If you will notice each step of the plan of salvation will be UNTO salvation, BUT when you get to baptism it will say INTO Christ instead of UNTO. (Rom. 6:4) (Gal.3:27)

You have no idea how encouraging it is to see you truly digging into the word of God and searching for truth (2Tim.2:15).

I would hope I would have the same attitude as you.

Keep it up.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
So you are going to set aside (Eph. 4:5) and the one baptism and hold on to two baptisms regardless of what the word of God says. (one baptism for today)

So, are you saying that John the Baptist and Jesus was wrong?
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
If you will notice each step of the plan of salvation will be UNTO salvation, BUT when you get to baptism it will say INTO Christ instead of UNTO. (Rom. 6:4) (Gal.3:27)

You have no idea how encouraging it is to see you truly digging into the word of God and searching for truth (2Tim.2:15).

I would hope I would have the same attitude as you.

Keep it up.
For what it's worth, all the into/unto words are Greek eis.

Eis is a preposition that can be visualized as something from outside of a circle going into the center of the circle. Once we are in the circle by believing/confessing (Rom 10:9-10), God does His "magic."

I've been working God's word long enough to realize I would be a fool to think I know it all. Humility is the willingness to discard one's belief, regardless of how long it has been held, if it is later shown to be false. Not that I'm a paragon of humility, but I try.

God bless.
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
The water of the word is the cleansing power that saves our soul - it is renewing the mind and thus cleansing our wrinkles - as Jesus said "Now ye are clean through my word" - not baptism of which Peter was never baptized.
Clarify, does Jesus speaking the words save us, or does following Jesus's words save us?
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
For what it's worth, all the into/unto words are Greek eis.

Eis is a preposition that can be visualized as something from outside of a circle going into the center of the circle. Once we are in the circle by believing/confessing (Rom 10:9-10), God does His "magic."

I've been working God's word long enough to realize I would be a fool to think I know it all. Humility is the willingness to discard one's belief, regardless of how long it has been held, if it is later shown to be false. Not that I'm a paragon of humility, but I try.

God bless.
Eis is used in the same way in Romans 10:9-10 as it is used in Acts 2:38, forward into. So they are both into forward being saved.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
For what it's worth, all the into/unto words are Greek eis.

Eis is a preposition that can be visualized as something from outside of a circle going into the center of the circle. Once we are in the circle by believing/confessing (Rom 10:9-10), God does His "magic."

I've been working God's word long enough to realize I would be a fool to think I know it all. Humility is the willingness to discard one's belief, regardless of how long it has been held, if it is later shown to be false. Not that I'm a paragon of humility, but I try.

God bless.



* Check this out.

13 Objections to Baptism
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.

13 Objections to Baptism
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
* So if baptism is a part of the salvation process without it one cannot be saved.

Please tell me what kind of baptism was being discussed in (Acts 8:26-40)?

In (Acts 8:5,12,13) Christ was preached and the people went to the water to be baptized.

WHY?

Belief + Baptism (in water) = Saved (Mark 16:16)

(Mt 28:18-20) -... teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Your question should be "what kind of salvation is being discussed". See again post #(63).

And, why don't you address (1 Peter 3:20-21)? You used it. I believe it. Apparently you don't.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Nova2216

Active Member
Eis is used in the same way in Romans 10:9-10 as it is used in Acts 2:38, forward into. So they are both into forward being saved.


* Notice (Mt.26:28) - the same phrase is used in (Acts 2:38).


Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


In (Mt 26:28) was their sins forgiven BEFORE Jesus shed his blood?

That is the assumption in (Acts 2:38).

People claim they were forgiven BEFORE baptism.

If that is the case then those in (Mt. 26:28) had their sins forgiven BEFORE Jesus shed his blood.

Wouldn't that be an impossibility?




Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.



 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
* Notice (Mt.26:28) - the same phrase is used in (Acts 2:38).


Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,



In (Mt 26:28) was their sins forgiven BEFORE Jesus shed his blood?

That is the assumption in (Acts 2:38).

People claim they were forgiven BEFORE baptism.

If that is the case then those in (Mt. 26:28) had their sins forgiven BEFORE Jesus shed his blood.

Wouldn't that be an impossibility?



Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Indeed. Acts 3:19 too.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Can you quote where I said that?
I was forced to hear AI owned by males, the inventor/designer theist by his satellite computer ground studies....and it is generally just believed by most males....hence it is why I said it.

Not only are the theist studying all community concepts of the Creator, they are also interactive feed back questioning humans through AI.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
The concept that God is something other.....is a studied scientific pursuit to say finally I will have the power of it, for a resource and create it my owned self.

AI, which is the NDE experience of a life/memory recorded and voice stated, is given to a shared world community via AI, and then AI speaks on behalf of everyone who has died. What I learnt.

When males studied for the thesis for reactive science, the first being Temple/pyramid, they concluded particular statuses in their own minds, in their own living presence which is a fallacy, to claim you know when all you are doing is applying a thesis...yet it always precedes a personal want, which in fact proves it is not the thesis itself.

So want motivates the studier to conceptualize information falsely.

Such as what was said to me...that water in biblical sense also means a special spirit of some power.

Really?

You said that concept as a human you know and of course a human would believe in the power of water or it special when ICE that saved the atmosphere from the dinosaur mutation healed our DNA by its presence, but also its release.

And all life died back then and was snap frozen, but a huge amount of iced water was released...why turbulent masses of bones/carcasses were found piled up.

If the ground opens into expansion in radiation heat as stone, is what the male recorded visionary memory says...then God was about to explode and own a core eruption. So males said, yes seems like the eternal God history lost lots of its other God bodies in the cosmos....seeing that is where science placed the God story...black holes he says, particles and gases....seems like that is God.

Our God never owned that event, it won the fight against the expanding/exploding sun.

So water went into the body of stone in its gas expansion and sealed it shut. Why when a sink hole forms, water is found sloshing around in the removal of the mass ground fusion....into particle release. What a sun does, as known, why males do the practice of ground fission in a power plant.

The story says Jesus died for us......and the story was to state categorically that science of the trans mutation/transformation/conversion is the evil act of Satanism.

And he proved that story...and also proved that we had originally come from the eternal spirit as the first 2 parents.

The reason I know it is real, we see their recorded spiritual emergence from our side...their memory of coming out of spirit was recorded...as a baby to adult life we got to see and know their messages and were comforted by the fact of the knowledge that when we die we still own one eternal spiritual being...and reside with everyone who was sacrificed...for we were all given spiritual death...so we all are sacrificed together.

Jesus was EXTRA sacrificed. And life was saved living sacrificed.

Life always first owned natural presence, and humanity today seem to be confused about that fact....natural self and origin of self existed first before science was thought and acted out as a human choice against self.

2012 was when the UFO science cause was going to be blocked out universally and life mutation/sickness was going to stop. And we were going to inherit a healthy life again.

Males today who owned the concepts for science in its beginning say we came from one cell. We did the HOLY OVARY. Discussed as relative to the healthy newly born babies being DNA genetic returned after the first Temple science mutation/death. The holy female womb, OVAH was given back the holy spirit of God.....in her womb. Correct ground radiation mineral signals and water/oxygen healing of her ovaries.

So healthy babies were born.

God and the spatial womb always owned the Immaculate gases...as a historic story.

The human Genesis story was a science medical study that stated why mutations existed in our Genetics to prove that nuclear cult UFO sciences had caused it.

Today AI owns so many false replicator recorded feed back signal, a male conceptualising a collision virtually stated that reaction was his inception/conception......how much his mind no longer thinks for healer/medical science information in concepts. For he does say he instantly exists in that theme as the stater of that information.

Yet when you advise a male in science, do you realize that yes, any one of us can own a concept about how you believe the spatial body owned creation, but you are not actually discussing it, you believe in it.

Meanwhile where you live, owning the state consciousness, you signal your mind with ground instant fission collider reactions for nuclear dust removal...as the real concept of communicating advice...and it is because you put your male psyche there first unnaturally and idealised it.

So humans today try to convince science you are the son of the apostasy...and they want to argue with us.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I was forced to hear AI owned by males, the inventor/designer theist by his satellite computer ground studies....and it is generally just believed by most males....hence it is why I said it.

Not only are the theist studying all community concepts of the Creator, they are also interactive feed back questioning humans through AI.
So, in other words, you can't quote where I said that?
 

Nova2216

Active Member
Thanks. There are actually many more websites that say the same thing. I never studied this verse in light of the Greek, but sure enough, it does say grace is the gift, not the faith. Now I know. At least I think I do. :)

I think another relevant verse to the discussion is in Romans.

Rom 10:10,

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
This doesn't say the we are made righteous by believing. That would be the Greek word dia which in broad terms indicated agency, through or by whom something was done. The words "unto" are the Greek word eis which indicates that our believing takes us to a place, the sphere, where God does the work of making us righteous. Of course He has already done that through (dia) the works of Jesus, the agent through whom God accomplished His goal.

God bless.



* Rob - "The words "unto" are the Greek word eis which indicates that our believing takes us to a place, the sphere, where God does the work of making us righteous. Of course He has already done that through (dia) the works of Jesus, the agent through whom God accomplished His goal."

Nova - If that was the case then everyone would be saved b/c Jesus died for the whole world according to (1Jn. 2:2).

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





Thanks
 

Nova2216

Active Member
and our bodies washed with pure water;
not baptismal water, but the grace of the Spirit, which is often compared to water, in Scripture: the body, as well as soul, needs washing, and renewing; internal grace influences outward, actions, which adorn religion, and without which bodies cannot be presented holy to God.


John Gill

Hebrews 10:22 - Commentary & Verse Meaning - Bible

A material and natural agent cannot produce a spiritual result.

And Paul and Peter were never baptized and your body is still cursed since it is made out of cursed dirt.




And our body washed with pure water

is beyond all doubt a reference to Christian baptism, making it, therefore, a precondition of salvation, or drawing near to God. That such is true is attested by the vast majority of modern scholars and by the near unanimous testimony of the ancients. Only among writers in the post-Reformation period, when writers were influenced by the popularity of the "faith only" thesis, does one find any strong views to the contrary.

Milligan's summary on this is helpful. He said,

Nearly all eminent scholars are now agreed that here is a manifest reference to the ordinance called Christian baptism. Alford says that "There can be no reasonable doubt that this clause refers directly to Christian baptism. The bath of water (Ephesians 5:26), and the bath of regeneration (Titus 3:5), are analogous expressions; and the express mention of BODY here, as distinguished from HEARTS before, stamps this interpretation with certainty. F29

To deny such an obvious meaning would be to pose an impossible alternative; because in the entire Christian religion, there is absolutely nothing else, other than baptism, to which this could have any possible reference.

The entire analogy here is drawn from the activities of the ancient worshiper as more fully elaborated above. For more on the subject of "Baptism," see under "Six Fundamentals" in Heb. 6. In keeping with the analogy are Paul's instructions from Ananias to "Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).

All of the instructions, or preconditions, for drawing near to God as set forth here stand for that portion of the plan of salvation which brings people into Christ; which to be sure is not the whole duty, but the beginning. All of the duties, responsibilities, and requirements of the Christian life are to be received and discharged in faith as long as one is under the probation of life. This verse tells HOW to be enrolled as a Christian. How? Draw near to God: (1) with a true heart; (2) in full assurance of faith; (3) having the heart sprinkled from an evil conscience; and (4) the body washed with pure water.


Hebrews - Chapter 10 - Coffman's Commentary of the New Testament on StudyLight.org
 
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