Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

[Nova2216]

I won't argue there. In fact, that is further proof that our salvation is permanent, so permanent that we are already in Jesus' kingdom. It is further validation that we have been born again of incorruptible seed, that we are at this very moment seated with Jesus at the right hand of God. That's how God sees us.

Unfortunately, far to many Christians don't really believe this. They think that it might happen sometime in the future if they act "good enough" to deserve it, if they don't commit too many sins. Or one big one? I don't know. It's unclear what they think once they stray that far from the truth that Jesus finished the job he started. It gets muddled.

So you agree that (Col.1:13) teaches some were in fact translated INTO THE KINGDOM in the first century.



13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

 

[Nova2216]

Sorry to keep bringing this up over and over, but in the Gospel of Luke nobody know about the mystery. The Church of the Body did not exist during the time about which Luke wrote in the Gospel. He learned it slowly as he recorded in the transitional Book of Acts, but neither he, nor anybody other than God, knew anything about the church of the Body at that time. He knew about the bride, i.e. Israel, but not the body, i.e. Christians.

You just can't use any OT book to say anything about the Church of the Body. That includes the gospels. Forget the big red letters, "The New Testament" in front of Matthew. They were added by man and they did so in error. Those men must have been inspired by Satan, because it has caused no end of confusion in the Christian church.

The Church of the Body came into existence on the Day of Pentecost. Acts describes the early days of the church as they learned the differences between their old Law of Moses way of life and the new life found in Christ Jesus. Later, God revealed the fullness of the mystery to Paul which he passed on to us. Before Paul NOBODY knew about the mystery. That's what it means when God said NOBODY knew about the mystery. He meant what He said, and said what He meant. We just need to believe it.

I'm not stuck between any rock and hard place. The only rock I'm involved in is the rock Jesus Christ who dwell richly within me.

Is (Luke 16:16) TRUE or FALSE

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it

 

[rrobs]

So you agree that (Col.1:13) teaches some were in fact translated INTO THE KINGDOM in the first century.

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Well, I don't mind "arguing" with you, but I'd be loathe to argue with God. Col 1:13 is pretty unambiguous. I would think that any 6th grader could understand it. Someone might have to tell them what "translated" means, but otherwise it's pretty simple.

Once the Church of the Body began on they Day of Pentecost, God put His plans for Israel on hold. He will take it up again after the Body rises to meet the Lord in the air. Isn't there something about the "times of the Gentiles" in the scriptures? That would be the time between John and Revelation. It is what nobody but God knew about in the OT (once again, including the gospels).

God deals with Israel one way. He deals with the Body in an entirely different way.

To get the whole story of Israel, one reads from Exodus to John then straight to Revelation. Acts to Jude are the mystery and was not known. It tells a completely different story (much better IMO) than that of Israel.

1Pet 1:11,

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
​

The ultra-highlighted "," the comma, represents the age of grace, the Body, the mystery. The Jews knew (or should have known) the Jesus came to suffer. That is Gen to John. They also knew he would come as King of Kings. That is the Book of Revelation.

 

[rrobs]

Is (Luke 16:16) TRUE or FALSE

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it

You didn't give me the option of TRUE and FALSE.

It is true with regard to Israel. It is not true with regard to the Body.

Luke did not know about the mystery when he wrote his Gospel. He could hardly have written about something about which he knew not.

 

[Nova2216]

You didn't give me the option of TRUE and FALSE.

It is true with regard to Israel. It is not true with regard to the Body.

Luke did not know about the mystery when he wrote his Gospel. He could hardly have written about something about which he knew not.

I posted (Luke16:16) and asked, is it TRUE or FALSE.

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

You claim the kingdom will NOT be established until Jesus return the 2nd time.

Yet (Col.1:13) and (Luke 16:16) both teach us that people were placed into the kingdom in the first century.

You do not seem to get this important point b/c you continue to say the kingdom has not yet been established.

How is it people are being placed into the kingdom in the first century?




You claim the Body and the Church are two different things.


According to (Eph.1:22,23) The Church is The Body.


Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


Jews were placed into the church in (Acts 2:38,47).

Gentiles were placed into the church (Acts 10:48)

There is one gospel for the world according to (Mk 16:15,16).


According to you ROB we cannot use (Mark 16:16) b/c it is OT.

 

[Nova2216]

I trust you are not saying that the law of Christ is the same as the law of Moses. If so, what was God talking about when he said the law made nothing perfect (Heb 7:19), that no man is justified by the law (Rom 3:20)? While the law of Moses did neither, Jesus did both.

Jer 31:31,

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
​

You may be Jewish, but I'm not. I have nothing to do with that covenant.

How do you make sense out of the Bible, mixing up peoples and times together like that?

Why do you insist in putting the church of the body where it does not belong? God said Jeremiah did not know about the church of the body, the mystery. He knew of the bride, but not the body.

The Law of Christ is NT Law. (Rom.8:2) (Gal.6:2)

 

[Nova2216]

It seems God deals with Jew and Gentile the same according to (Gal.3:26-28)

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Notice -

vs 23 is speaking about those under the OT Law (Jews).

vs 25 no longer are they under the OT Law (Jews)

vs 26 All (everyone - Jew / Gentile) are now children of God by faith in Christ.

vs 27 As many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

vs 28 neither Jew or Greek... for ye are ALL one in Christ. (Jew / Gentile).

vs 29 Now both (Jew / Gentile) are heirs to the promise if ye be Christ's.




Why do you not teach this?

 

[rrobs]

It seems God deals with Jew and Gentile the same according to (Gal.3:26-28)

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Notice -

vs 23 is speaking about those under the OT Law (Jews).

vs 25 no longer are they under the OT Law (Jews)

vs 26 All (everyone - Jew / Gentile) are now children of God by faith in Christ.

vs 27 As many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

vs 28 neither Jew or Greek... for ye are ALL one in Christ. (Jew / Gentile).

vs 29 Now both (Jew / Gentile) are heirs to the promise if ye be Christ's.

Why do you not teach this?

Not sure why, but you are not getting much of what I say. Most of what you think I'm saying, I'm not saying at all. I thought I was being clear, but perhaps not.

In the OT(including gospels) there were Jews and Gentiles, but no church of the body of Christ. The church of the body began on the day of Pentecost and is composed of both former Jews and former Gentiles. God does deal with Jew and Gentile the same way since Pentecost, but prior to that there was a huge difference. One was God's people and the other was not. In the church there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but Christ is all and in all. Of course the Jews and Gentiles that have not confessed Jesus as Lord are still Jew or Gentile.

I think that is pretty much exactly what you just said. Could you perhaps give me a specific example of what I've said that goes against what you just said? I think we are on the same page.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I am back with a question for whoever will answer. What exactly do you believe "translated" means. Maybe it means their names were added to the "book of life" so they would have a place in the kingdom. Maybe it means they were given a reserved place in the kingdom. It might not mean they were physically placed in the kingdom at that moment. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom so if they were still flesh and blood is it even possible for them to actually be in the kingdom? If this word "translated" can be understood it will help explain things. Thanks to anyone who will answer.

 

[Nova2216]

Not sure why, but you are not getting much of what I say. Most of what you think I'm saying, I'm not saying at all. I thought I was being clear, but perhaps not.

In the OT(including gospels) there were Jews and Gentiles, but no church of the body of Christ. The church of the body began on the day of Pentecost and is composed of both former Jews and former Gentiles. God does deal with Jew and Gentile the same way since Pentecost, but prior to that there was a huge difference. One was God's people and the other was not. In the church there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but Christ is all and in all. Of course the Jews and Gentiles that have not confessed Jesus as Lord are still Jew or Gentile.

I think that is pretty much exactly what you just said. Could you perhaps give me a specific example of what I've said that goes against what you just said? I think we are on the same page.

Post #703

Rob - "Once the Church of the Body began on they Day of Pentecost, God put His plans for Israel on hold. He will take it up again after the Body rises to meet the Lord in the air....God deals with Israel one way. He deals with the Body in an entirely different way."

 

[Nova2216]

I am back with a question for whoever will answer. What exactly do you believe "translated" means. Maybe it means their names were added to the "book of life" so they would have a place in the kingdom. Maybe it means they were given a reserved place in the kingdom. It might not mean they were physically placed in the kingdom at that moment. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom so if they were still flesh and blood is it even possible for them to actually be in the kingdom? If this word "translated" can be understood it will help explain things. Thanks to anyone who will answer.

"Translated" is another way of saying one has been "CONVERTED".


"translated"

their names were added to the "book of life"

so they would have a place in the kingdom

they were given a reserved place in the kingdom


"translated"

3179. meyisthmi methistemi, meth-is'-tay-mee
Search for 3179 in KJV
from 3326 and 2476; to transfer, i.e. carry away, depose or (figuratively) exchange, seduce:--put out, remove, translate, turn away.

See Greek 3326 (meta)
See Greek 2476 (histemi)


You are on the right track.


Thanks

 

[rrobs]

Post #703

Rob - "Once the Church of the Body began on they Day of Pentecost, God put His plans for Israel on hold. He will take it up again after the Body rises to meet the Lord in the air....God deals with Israel one way. He deals with the Body in an entirely different way."

I think I see the misunderstanding. I meant, and should have said, God dealt (past tense) with Israel one way and now deals (present tense) with the body (now composed of former Jews and former Gentiles) in an entirely different way.

You really would have made a good proof reader.

 

[Muffled]

30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him

They did not think they needed to be baptized by John and they were wrong according to this verse.

They rejected the counsel of God by rejecting water baptism.

Baptism is a command of God according to (Acts 10:48).

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

John baptized unto repentance which is not the same thing as salvation but is necessary as a first step to salvation. Repentance does not require water. It can be done in the heart.

It is but not as a means of salvation. Baptism is not something the believer is commanded to do it is something the preacher of the gospel is required to do as part of the process of making disciples.
Matt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[Muffled]

No, I did not mean to say the answers are not in the Bible. They absolutely are in the Bible, but you apparently don't like the Bible. Check the Koran. Maybe you'll find the answers there.

I believe the Qu'ran is sadly lacking facts about salvation.

 

[Muffled]

What makes you say that?

I believe Christians had all they needed for salvation. I believe Paul simply puts it in the form of systematic theology and for gentiles a little help with OT concepts that were still valid but as gentiles they weren't aware of them.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

"Translated" is another way of saying one has been "CONVERTED".


"translated"

their names were added to the "book of life"

so they would have a place in the kingdom

they were given a reserved place in the kingdom


"translated"

3179. meyisthmi methistemi, meth-is'-tay-mee
Search for 3179 in KJV
from 3326 and 2476; to transfer, i.e. carry away, depose or (figuratively) exchange, seduce:--put out, remove, translate, turn away.

See Greek 3326 (meta)
See Greek 2476 (histemi)


You are on the right track.


Thanks

I hope I am on the right track but I am still looking through a fog. So plain and simple, yes or no, do you believe these flesh and blood people were physically in the kingdom or they just had a place waiting for them in the kingdom. Not necessay to quote a lot of verses. Just were they actually in the kingdom even though flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. Thanks

 

[rrobs]

I believe the Qu'ran is sadly lacking facts about salvation.

I know. I was just being a wise guy.

 

[rrobs]

I believe Christians had all they needed for salvation. I believe Paul simply puts it in the form of systematic theology and for gentiles a little help with OT concepts that were still valid but as gentiles they weren't aware of them.

Happy birthday!

Good observation.

 

[Nova2216]

John baptized unto repentance which is not the same thing as salvation but is necessary as a first step to salvation. Repentance does not require water. It can be done in the heart.

It is but not as a means of salvation. Baptism is not something the believer is commanded to do it is something the preacher of the gospel is required to do as part of the process of making disciples.
Matt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Johns baptism was in water and for the forgiveness of sins (Mark 1:4).

Baptism was commanded in (Acts 2:38).
Baptism was commanded in (Acts 10:48).
Baptism was commanded in (Mark 16:15,16).
Baptism was commended in (Acts 16:30-34).
Baptism was commanded in (Acts 22:16)
Baptism was commanded in (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40).
Baptism was commanded in (Mt.28:18-20).

Did you miss all this?

 

[Nova2216]

I hope I am on the right track but I am still looking through a fog. So plain and simple, yes or no, do you believe these flesh and blood people were physically in the kingdom or they just had a place waiting for them in the kingdom. Not necessay to quote a lot of verses. Just were they actually in the kingdom even though flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. Thanks

1. The Kingdom is spiritual. Its a way of thinking and living.

You tell me what (Col.1:13) means?

Were some people placed into the kingdom (the church) in the first century?


2. In (Acts 2:38) some repented and were baptized for the remission of sins.

When they obeyed (vs) 38 the Lord placed them into the church (the kingdom / into Christ). (Acts 2:47)

It is automatic


3. The reason most people are mixed up on many bible topics is b/c they did not seek the answer found in Gods word (Jn 5:39).

My friend, that is all I got (1Peter 4:11).


If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God...




Thanks