Jesus sacrifice, why?

[Nimos]

Jesus sacrifice for human sins is often seen as something amazing. But why is that, if he rose 3 days later perfectly fine? If doesn't really seem like that a huge thing, if you know that its only temporarily and you end up with God.

If you believe in the trinity, how is this even seen as a sacrifice in the first place, as God is eternal?

Can anyone clarify why the sacrifice is seen as something amazing in the first place?

 

[whirlingmerc]

Jesus sacrifice for human sins is often seen as something amazing. But why is that, if he rose 3 days later perfectly fine? If doesn't really seem like that a huge thing, if you know that its only temporarily and you end up with God.

If you believe in the trinity, how is this even seen as a sacrifice in the first place, as God is eternal?

Can anyone clarify why the sacrifice is seen as something amazing in the first place?

There are many reasons and one amazing thing is that Jesus died for enemies of God, sinners. It's a demonstration of love

50 Reasons Why Jesus Came to Die by John Piper- FREE Download

 

[viole]

There are many reasons and one amazing thing is that Jesus died for enemies of God, sinners. It's a demonstration of love

50 Reasons Why Jesus Came to Die by John Piper- FREE Download

Since He knew it would be only a temporary death, no big deal really. Everybody would do that. As a demonstration of love it seems pretty risk free to me.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Nimos]

There are many reasons and one amazing thing is that Jesus died for enemies of God, sinners. It's a demonstration of love

50 Reasons Why Jesus Came to Die by John Piper- FREE Download

But what exactly changed after the sacrifice or what were suppose to change? I don't really think I got that one. Jesus got crucified by the Jews because they didn't believe he were the Messias, so shouldn't his death and resurrection have convinced them or what were the point?

 

[Wandering Monk]

Who decided that human sacrifice was the only way to atone for sin?

Who made the rules about who's in and who's out of Heaven?

Who asks to be born?

 

[Nimos]

Who decided that human sacrifice was the only way to atone for sin?

God I assume

Who made the rules about who's in and who's out of Heaven?

God as well

Who asks to be born?

No one

 

[Wandering Monk]

God I assume


God as well


No one

And you're OK with this God?

 

[whirlingmerc]

But what exactly changed after the sacrifice or what were suppose to change? I don't really think I got that one. Jesus got crucified by the Jews because they didn't believe he were the Messias, so shouldn't his death and resurrection have convinced them or what were the point?

The sacrifice made it possible that God would be completely for us believers and there would be no wrath. God's will makes the universe tick and all things work for his glory

see Jeremiah 32:40
I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.

The cross was a watershed moment. It moved people from goats to sheep and death to life. Jesus loves those he redeems just as they are but too much to leave them as they are

 

[Wandering Monk]

God could have made us with a free will and incorruptible at the same time. He did not.

 

[Deeje]

God could have made us with a free will and incorruptible at the same time. He did not.

Then we would not have free will at all....we'd just be programmed robots.

What Christ did in offering a sinless life was an exchange....a payment. It is called redemption.
When you redeem something, you pay a price to buy it back. What Jesus bought back was the perfect sinless life that Adam lost for his children. (Romans 5:12)

Jesus offered a perfect sinless life that paid the price for redeeming the whole human race. No one else had the correct payment, which is why he had to come from heaven as a perfect man. He did not inherit sin like all other humans and he gave his life for us willingly.

 

[Nimos]

And you're OK with this God?

No sure, what you mean? God sacrificed either himself or his son for human sins according to the bible depending on how you choose to understand the story. And rose again on the third day.

 

[Nimos]

The sacrifice made it possible that God would be completely for us believers and there would be no wrath. God's will makes the universe tick and all things work for his glory

see Jeremiah 32:40
I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.

The cross was a watershed moment. It moved people from goats to sheep and death to life. Jesus loves those he redeems just as they are but too much to leave them as they are

Im not sure how you relate Jeremiah 32:40 to the crucifixion of Jesus and taking away sins and this having anything to do with the new covenant? Its about the future of the land Israel and its people, as far as I can see.

 

[Nimos]

Then we would not have free will at all....we'd just be programmed robots.

What Christ did in offering a sinless life was an exchange....a payment. It is called redemption.
When you redeem something, you pay a price to buy it back. What Jesus bought back was the perfect sinless life that Adam lost for his children. (Romans 5:12)

Jesus offered a perfect sinless life that paid the price for redeeming the whole human race. No one else had the correct payment, which is why he had to come from heaven as a perfect man. He did not inherit sin like all other humans and he gave his life for us willingly.

But we don't really have free will according to the bible, God will blessed and save those that does his will and punish those that don't. That is not really a good way to encourage free will?

I still don't get what exactly we got out of Jesus sacrifice or what it was suppose to solve?, because nothing seems to really have changed. People still kill each other, do cruel things to kids etc. So it doesn't really seem like sin went away.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Jesus sacrifice for human sins is often seen as something amazing. But why is that, if he rose 3 days later perfectly fine? If doesn't really seem like that a huge thing, if you know that its only temporarily and you end up with God.

If you believe in the trinity, how is this even seen as a sacrifice in the first place, as God is eternal?

Can anyone clarify why the sacrifice is seen as something amazing in the first place?

Indeed, I agree. A sacrifice is to give something up while at least thinking you won't be getting it back.

But this fellow is supposed to be an all knowing and all powerfull god. What is being sacrificed? His human body? It's not like he can't make a trillion more but with a snap of his virtual fingers?
His life? Nope - he's kind of immortal.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Then we would not have free will at all....we'd just be programmed robots.

What Christ did in offering a sinless life was an exchange....a payment. It is called redemption.
When you redeem something, you pay a price to buy it back. What Jesus bought back was the perfect sinless life that Adam lost for his children. (Romans 5:12)

Jesus offered a perfect sinless life that paid the price for redeeming the whole human race. No one else had the correct payment, which is why he had to come from heaven as a perfect man. He did not inherit sin like all other humans and he gave his life for us willingly.

1. how does killing a scapegoat "redeem" any kind of guilt of anyone else?

2. he didn't give his life, since he resurected 3 days later and became (or rather: returned to) being the immortal dictator of the universe

3. a payment to whom? himself? to save us from himself?

Literally nothing in this story makes any sense.

 

[Audie]

Jesus sacrifice for human sins is often seen as something amazing. But why is that, if he rose 3 days later perfectly fine? If doesn't really seem like that a huge thing, if you know that its only temporarily and you end up with God.

If you believe in the trinity, how is this even seen as a sacrifice in the first place, as God is eternal?

Can anyone clarify why the sacrifice is seen as something amazing in the first place?

First off, it was not a sacrifice. Nor did he come back to life.

He recklessly got himself killed; his followers concocted
a story-an insanely successful* one-about how he came
back to life (where's the body if he didnt).

In the annals of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat,
that may have no equal.

The "sacrifice" thing never did make any sense.

"God" invents man, and sin; if people he made
do this thing he made, knowing full well they will do it,
he gets pissed and tortures them forever.

But then he has a Divine Idea! I will torture a part
of myself, to pay myself for uh... wait...

* Joseph Smith would be pretty impressed if he
knew what a success his story about finding gold
books has become! On a growth curve, LDS
has way outperformed Christianity.

 

[Audie]

1. how does killing a scapegoat "redeem" any kind of guilt of anyone else?

2. he didn't give his life, since he resurected 3 days later and became (or rather: returned to) being the immortal dictator of the universe

3. a payment to whom? himself? to save us from himself?

Literally nothing in this story makes any sense.

haha, I didnt read your post before I wrote mine, so this
above is like plagiarism I demand you delete it.

 

[Audie]

Indeed, I agree. A sacrifice is to give something up while at least thinking you won't be getting it back.

But this fellow is supposed to be an all knowing and all powerfull god. What is being sacrificed? His human body? It's not like he can't make a trillion more but with a snap of his virtual fingers?
His life? Nope - he's kind of immortal.

Sacrificed his comfort for the afternoon?

 

[Nimos]

First off, it was not a sacrifice. Nor did he come back to life.

He recklessly got himself killed; his followers concocted
a story-an insanely successful* one-about how he came
back to life (where's the body if he didnt).

In the annals of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat,
that may have no equal.

The "sacrifice" thing never did make any sense.

"God" invents man, and sin; if people he made
do this thing he made, knowing full well they will do it,
he gets pissed and tortures them forever.

But then he has a Divine Idea! I will torture a part
of myself, to pay myself for uh... wait...

* Joseph Smith would be pretty impressed if he
knew what a success his story about finding gold
books has become! On a growth curve, LDS
has way outperformed Christianity.

But if it weren't a sacrifice, which I would agree with. Then why do Christians care about it and I still don't get what were suppose to happen when sin were removed? Why is it even important to remove it, it makes little sense I think. But yet you always hear preachers etc. say something along the lines "Jesus died for our sins", but if there is no difference or it had no effect, then what is the point?

 

[Audie]

But if it weren't a sacrifice, which I would agree with. Then why do Christians care about it and I still don't get what were suppose to happen when sin were removed? Why is it even important to remove it, it makes little sense I think. But yet you always hear preachers etc. say something along the lines "Jesus died for our sins", but if there is no difference or it had no effect, then what is the point?

The point for preachers to make is that this
noble and perfect person loved you enough to die horribly
for you, you kind of owe it to be grateful. It is quite the
mix and interplay of emotions the church has learned
to play like a harp.

It just does not make actual sense, though
so- "make virtue of necessity" is the solution.

They cannot explain it, any more than the so called
"trinity" can be explained. So what to do?
Make it a holy Mystery, for lo, things of god are
supposed to be mysterious, beyond human understanding.

On a factual history sort of level-

It is all make believe, and if you do not get the "point"
it is because it is not there.