Jesus Resurrection

[Jollybear]

That article doesn’t support your claim nor does it counter mine.

You asked me for evidence that the apostles died for there claims, YES that article provided that.

So, to show that the claims of the Bible are historically accurate you simply give me an article quoting the Bible? How is this not the definition of a circular argument?

If the bible was just ONE historical document, written by one author, youd have SOMEWHAT of a point, but, the bible is NOT one document written by one author. Just the NT alone is 27 books written by 8 different authors. Plus if you had not noticed, the article i gave you mentioned other non canonical books like annals, nero, Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Dionysius of Corinth, Irenaeus, Tertullian and more.

Also in that article the author says like you the apostles are not liars and believe Jesus rose form the grave. But unlike you the author says that doesn’t prove the resurrection is happened? Why would the author say that if the apostles were not liars? Maybe it’s because besides the Bible , we have scant evidence—even if the apostles were executed or murdered—that these were martyrdoms.

If the apostles wer the ones who made these claims (first hand testimony, not second hand) and they died for it, that shows there not lying. If there not lying, that INDIRECTLY shows evidence of a resurrection.

 

[Jollybear]

Relying on christianity to understand its own text to make counter points to the churches confusion is an idiots confusion arguing with an idiot "expert" .

Since you insist the church is authoritative to its text, i would have to disagree with that fantasy you seem to have.

How do you understand the resurrection then?

 

[Jollybear]

I do not assume that anything I read in The Bible actually happened, but you do, so we are just talking past each other. We could read a history book, rather than our Bible, if we want to know what might have happened in the past, and even then we still have to critically assess the information.

So is the bible a fictional novel then?

 

[Riders]

You asked me for evidence that the apostles died for there claims, YES that article provided that.



If the bible was just ONE historical document, written by one author, youd have SOMEWHAT of a point, but, the bible is NOT one document written by one author. Just the NT alone is 27 books written by 8 different authors. Plus if you had not noticed, the article i gave you mentioned other non canonical books like annals, nero, Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Dionysius of Corinth, Irenaeus, Tertullian and more.



If the apostles wer the ones who made these claims (first hand testimony, not second hand) and they died for it, that shows there not lying. If there not lying, that INDIRECTLY shows evidence of a resurrection.

non canonical books like annals, nero, Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Dionysius of Corinth, Irenaeus, Tertullian

I just read up on that.The page says it is early Catholic church writings written 80 to 140 ad 80 to 140 years after Christ by the Catholic church? Might as well be the bible. I rest my case you have no proof.

Writings 80 to 140 years after Christ do not count.

 

[lukethethird]

So is the bible a fictional novel then?

What, you're asking me, you haven't read it?

 

[leroy]

non canonical books like annals, nero, Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Dionysius of Corinth, Irenaeus, Tertullian

I just read up on that.The page says it is early Catholic church writings written 80 to 140 ad 80 to 140 years after Christ by the Catholic church? Might as well be the bible. I rest my case you have no proof.

Writings 80 to 140 years after Christ do not count.

Paul wrote about Jesus within 15 years after the crusifixtion. So even by your strict and unrealistic standards you should accept the historicity of jesus.

 

[Riders]

Paul wrote about Jesus within 15 years after the crusifixtion. So even by your strict and unrealistic standards you should accept the historicity of jesus.

Wiki says different I am not talking about Paul anyways I am talking about the other references you provided.

 

[Jollybear]

What, you're asking me, you haven't read it?

Im asking your view.

Yes, ive read it.

 

[Riders]

Paul wrote about Jesus within 15 years after the crusifixtion. So even by your strict and unrealistic standards you should accept the historicity of jesus.

The internet says Jesus died about 30 ad here's when Paul lived and wrote the new testament.

It says 65 AD. Too big of a difference sorry.

 

[Riders]

This sight says he wrote the new testament books between 55 and 67 AD at least 25 years difference between that and Jesus life, the ones written in 67 AD was about 32 years difference. Thats way too long to be reliable.

Chronology of Apostle Paul's Journeys and Epistles

 

[lukethethird]

Im asking your view.

Yes, ive read it.

When reading my Bible, a little grain of salt can go a long way.

 

[Jollybear]

When reading my Bible, a little grain of salt can go a long way.

So, some things are true and some things arent, thats how you look at the bible?

 

[Prometheus85]

You asked me for evidence that the apostles died for there claims, YES that article provided that.



If the bible was just ONE historical document, written by one author, youd have SOMEWHAT of a point, but, the bible is NOT one document written by one author. Just the NT alone is 27 books written by 8 different authors. Plus if you had not noticed, the article i gave you mentioned other non canonical books like annals, nero, Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Dionysius of Corinth, Irenaeus, Tertullian and more.



If the apostles wer the ones who made these claims (first hand testimony, not second hand) and they died for it, that shows there not lying. If there not lying, that INDIRECTLY shows evidence of a resurrection.

Do you have any evidence besides the Bible? Or are u gonna continue to make circular arguments?

 

[leroy]

T. Thats way too long to be reliable.

s

Too long according to who ? Should we reject all the sources from ancient history that where written 30 years after the fact that they are reporting ?

 

[Jollybear]

Do you have any evidence besides the Bible? Or are u gonna continue to make circular arguments?

I just pointed out to you the article mentioned the other sources other then the bible.

Plus the bible is not ONE SOURCE, ITS MANY.

 

[Jollybear]

This sight says he wrote the new testament books between 55 and 67 AD at least 25 years difference between that and Jesus life, the ones written in 67 AD was about 32 years difference. Thats way too long to be reliable.

Chronology of Apostle Paul's Journeys and Epistles

Look at this chart of historical documents compared to the New Testament.

Can we trust the New Testament as a historical document? | CARM.org

 

[lukethethird]

So, some things are true and some things arent, thats how you look at the bible?

When reading The Bible I don't look for truths as to what really happened in real time and space, that's for the history books to discern.

 

[Jollybear]

When reading The Bible I don't look for truths as to what really happened in real time and space, that's for the history books to discern.

When reading the bible, what do you look for then? You seam a bit elusive to me.

 

[The Anointed]

Too long according to who ? Should we reject all the sources from ancient history that where written 30 years after the fact that they are reporting ?

What of the books attributed to Josephus the Historian, which were supposedly written some 2,000 years ago, the originals having been lost long, long ago, and all we have today are copies, of copies of that which he is supposed to have written by that Historian?

 

[Riders]

Too long according to who ? Should we reject all the sources from ancient history that where written 30 years after the fact that they are reporting ?

Sense this is proof for Jesus being raised from the dead yes.