1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Jesus raised Himself from the dead

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Teritos, Feb 26, 2021.

Tags:
  1. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,916
    Ratings:
    +352
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    not a lie ?? hummm it is turning in to quite the yarn
     
  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    12,729
    Ratings:
    +2,553
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    no jesus is the begotten of the father, he was adam in a prior earth experience. he was also joshua, hoshea, elisha, and after the order of melchizedek, among others
     
  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    12,729
    Ratings:
    +2,553
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    no i've showed you the word in nt that means reincarnation. the bible gives a number of implications. the main one being the "spirit" of john was once known as elijah.

    the yarn is already in the bible. you just have to follow the thread.
     
  4. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,916
    Ratings:
    +352
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    John 1 :
    21 And they asked him: “What, then? Are you E‧li′jah?” And he said: “I am not.”
     
  5. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    No. Father Adam's Holy Spirit Being, which is the real person, was birthed by the Most Holy Spirit of GOD before all of creation. It was because of his birth that GOD started creating. Jesus His Pre-Eminence is the GOD in HIS incarnate Manifestation. Which simply means, the Most Holy Spirit of GOD coupled the body in the womb of the blessed VIrgin Mary, then picked up that body and came into the earth through her womb. That birth lied about HIS true identity. HE is GOD and the Father of Adam, who came in the shoes of HIS son Adam, to take his sons place as that seed that died to bring forth much fruit. John 12:24

    The lost sheep of Israel HE spoke of, was HIs Son Adam and Eve. The reason that they were "lost" is because of the law procreation held them down. So for them resurrection is not what was needed, it was A bail (Abel) price. Thus, the GOD came in the shoes of the Son of GOD so that the laws of system and death would scan HIM out as the Son of GOD, and release Adam and Eve to take HIM instead. Because GOD is more Adam than Adam is.

    You are correct about the priesthood of Melchizadek; which is not by being born a levite. And that they are all speaking from the same Spirit, in the sense that bible is written by Prophets that have the Spirit of Prophecy. Some have it in little measure, some have it in great measure; only the Elijah have it in full measure. Father Adam is Greater than the Prophet. And GOD is the Supreme Spirit Being.

    Thus, the GOD of the Spirit of the Prophets; is the GOD and Father of Adam, who gave birth to his model type mother eve, who then gave birth to the Spirit Beings of the three Elijah (Which is why they are called the Son of Man and have the mantle of authority and power in the earth which is their father Adam's). And the three Elijah gave birth to their model types and then gave birth to 4 Sons each, which make up the 12 tribes of Israel; these 12 are the real Apostles of the Lamb, that fathered the 12 tribes of Israel... and then gave birth to their model types.

    Samson, Noah, Enoch
    Abraham, Moses, David
    Jephter, Zerubbabel, Joshua
    Gideon, Samuel, Daniel

    Then these 12 birthed their model types and then birthed 12 sons each which are the 144. I don't know most of their names yet, but its in this batch that you get the likes of Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah.

    And it continued this way 12x12 until a point where the Man could no longer produce his model type. Then the final batch are the children of the kingdom that cannot make Eden. They will inherit the new earth; the New Salem; and will not eat from the tree of life. They are candidates of the second resurrection. This is where saul paul comes from. The reason is because they no longer had what it takes to be produce their model types - So we are talking about the quality and ability of their Spirit Being - so they were given a help to multiply. That final batch that came from being mulplied, were called "The eunuchs of the Kingdom". In the bible these are referred to as Gentiles, which means they did not have the zeal,to seek the kingdom, to desire to know the GOD. Saul Paul comes from the batch that was the very last batch, and he is the least in the kingdom. And this was revealed by Jesus His Pre-Eminence when HE said:

    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    The Proof of this is the wonderful works the Apostles did in this earth while wearing the same kind of body we have. Moses parted the red sea; Joshua brought down the walls of Jericho, Enoch transfigured in life, Noah coupled and Ark; the Unsinkable Titanic - From Abraham you get Israel ( Abraham, Isaac, Jacob where pointing to the three Elijah). If a person is honest and desires to know the truth, they will be able to see how their works in this earth proved their soldier rank in the kingdom.
     
    #165 Yahcubs777, Mar 19, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
    • Creative Creative x 1
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,295
    Ratings:
    +2,588
    An illustration, a parable is Not a lie but an illustrative story.
    Adam did Not have a soul, Adam did Not possess a soul, rather Adam was a soul, a living soul - Genesis 2:7
    Adam went from non-life (clay), to life, and returned back to non-life - Genesis 3:19.
    Adam was never offered life beyond Earth.
    Adam was only offered everlasting life on Earth if he did Not break God's Law.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,295
    Ratings:
    +2,588
    ....and I find the very basics of transfiguration is that it was a 'VISION' and Not a real happening - Matthew 17:9
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,295
    Ratings:
    +2,588
    Can you think of anyone righteous who went to hell the day he died ___________
    According to Acts 2:27 KJV dead Jesus went to hell the day he died.
    Since Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death (Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14)
    So, while dead Jesus who was dead for days he was in a sleep-like or unconscious state until his God resurrected him.
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,295
    Ratings:
    +2,588
    I agree, that is Not scriptural or true according to www.jw.org
     
  10. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    Then what was the image described in Daniel 10 and Revelation 1 if it was just a vision?

    It is written in Joel that Men shall see visions. But you people think that is because of GOD living in you. You don't know it means revelations. The Apostles were given a revelation, and the reason it was only called a vision is because of the Word: except ye are born again ye cannot see the kingdom of GOD, revealing they were not born again.
     
  11. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    Any person claiming HE is the Son of GOD is trying to place HIM lower than HE is. Therefore, they are claiming that the Son is equal with the father because they called the Father, the Son of GOD.
     
  12. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,753
    Ratings:
    +5,401
    Religion:
    Spiritual but not religious
    I don't see the relevance of any of the verses you selectively listed and interpreted to the verse listed in the OP. In my opinion some of them are in open contradiction to it.

    And those who sleep are not dead in my opinion.
     
  13. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    Wrong. As was written in Peter, HE defeat the demons of hell, and resurrected and quicken those that slept. And I am saying HE resurrected HIMSELF.

    HE said; I am the resurrection and the life. If it is true, then HOW can HE be resurrected by another?
     
  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,295
    Ratings:
    +2,588
    We are Not aware of the passing of time while we are asleep but we wake up in the morning.
    Whereas, the dead are also Not aware of the passing of time because they are dead asleep and do Not wake up.
    In other words, what we can learn for the Bible is: that the dead are in a sleep-like unconscious state.
    ( For example: Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 and Jesus' words at John 11:11-14 )
    I find Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense '.
    Please notice because it says there there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
    So, Resurrection Day (Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years) is future.
     
  15. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,753
    Ratings:
    +5,401
    Religion:
    Spiritual but not religious
    In my opinion you are just repeating your earlier statement that death is sleep, but we can easily be awoken from sleep, because our subconscious brain continues to function, not so in death.

    Also you are still cherrypicking verses to suit your interpretation whilst utterly ignoring the ones that don't such as the verse in the OP in my opinion
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,295
    Ratings:
    +2,588
    Very interesting question ^ above ^.
    Because Jesus died a faithful death is why his God resurrected dead Jesus after a few days.
    In other words, Jesus was Not resurrected the day he died.
    John chapter 5 helps us see that the Father commits all judgement to the Son at John 5:22.
    The Father gives life to the Son according to John 5:26-27
    So, the Resurrection Power is given to the Son - John 5:28-30
    Thus, Jesus has the keys to unlock death for us - Revelation 1:18.

    I know of No Scripture written in Peter that Jesus defeats the demons or any demons are in 'biblical hell'.
    What I read at 1 Peter 3:18 B is Jesus is resurrected in a spirit body.
    At 1 Peter 3:19 spirit Jesus preaches to the demons in prison ( does Not say hell )
    Continuing to read at 2 Peter 2:4-5 those particular demons are the fallen angels of Noah's day.
    KJV uses the English word ' hell ' in verse 4, but the word there is: tartarus - Jude 1:6
    Since God resurrected dead Jesus back to his per-human heavenly spirit body, thus the resurrected spirit Jesus could appear to those fallen angels/demons.

    If Jesus resurrected himself why does gospel writer Luke write otherwise:
    Acts of the Apostles 2:24 Acts of the Apostles 2:32; Acts of the Apostles 3:15; Acts of the Apostles 5:30; Acts of the Apostles 13:30,37; Acts of the Apostles 10:40 _______________
    Plus see Colossians 2:12; Ephesians 1:20; Galatians 1:1 B
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,295
    Ratings:
    +2,588
    While deep asleep we are Not aware of the passing of time.
    The dead are ' dead asleep ' (more than deep asleep) so Not aware of the passing of time.
    Yes, repeating that Jesus taught the dead sleep at John 11:11-14.
    Yes, repeating that the dead are silent according to Psalms 115:17
    Yes, there is No remembrance of God in death according to Psalms 6:5
    Yes, the dead sleep the 'sleep of death' (Not the sleep of the living) - Psalms 13:3
    Yes, those in the grave can Not praise God according to Isaiah 38:18
    Yes, the dead know nothing according to Ecclesiastes 9:5
    To me that is Not cherry picking but showing the harmony between the many Bible writers.

    We the living can be awakened from sleep, but the dead can't be awakened.
    We can't resurrect oneself or another, we need someone who can resurrect us.
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,295
    Ratings:
    +2,588
    I find Jesus truthfully answers who he is at John 10:36____________________
     
  19. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    They say that HE was resurrected because they called HIM the Son of GOD. But the Son of GOD that was bailed out of prison, which is hell, is Adam. And Jesus His Pre-Eminence is who resurrected him. Demons are not the children of the kingdom btw.

    Tartarus is something different entirely. No human spirit can be in Tartarus.
     
    #179 Yahcubs777, Mar 19, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,295
    Ratings:
    +2,588
    No one who died before Jesus died were born again (John 3:13) but they will have a happy-and-healthy future physical resurrection to live life on Earth - Acts 24:15

    If you are referring to Daniel 10:14 that vision is in connection to Daniel 12:4 and Daniel 8:17 for the time of the end.

    Archangel Michael will bring Peace on Earth (kind of like reading history in advance) of Armageddon (Daniel 12:1; Revelation 12:7)

    Many asleep in the dust will wake up - Daniel 12:2
    The ones who have that first or earlier resurrection are those of Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 1 Corinthians 15:50.
     
Loading...