Jesus Prayed

[dybmh]

Well, which is it .. 3 or 1?

As a Jew, I'm taking a bit of a risk getting involved in this. But, I'm feeling frisky, so here it goes.

Can you imagine a triangular prisim? Each side is unique, but when you look into each side you can see all three sides. The side that's facing you is visible, and both the other sides are visible too. Looking at one side is seeing all three sides at once. But each side is unique. You could even make an engraving on each side, and as long as the prisim is transparent, a person could see all three engravings regardless of which side they looked at. A person is looking at the same prism in totallity, no matter which side they look at. But each side is still unique.

Now imagine that the prisim can't spin. And each side is named, father, son, spirit. And only the "son" is facing you. And so all you can see is a 2-d representation of all three sides. The son is facing you, the father and spirit are visible through the side we're calling "son". As long as a person knows that it's a prisim, they can look at this one side, see the other sides through it, and confidentally claim, this is a prisim ( aka God ). The concept is montheistic based on what is happening internally in that person, in their mind and in their heart.

So, this god concept is a triad, each side of the triad includes the other sides. Each side is unique, but, also essentially the same. It's all the same god perceived from different perspectives. But even if we spin this concept around, it's still the same 3 sides that are visible.

As long as the person recognizes the prisim is 3-d and not a flat object, then, they can accurately describe it as a prisim regardless of which side they're looking at.

So it's 3 and 1, but actually 1. Still monotheism. Just another way of looking at it.

which is more in line with a "Jewish Jesus".

I'm sure you're aware that Jesus allowed people to worship him, right? So let's not get sanctimonious about how Jewish he was if only there wasn't a trinity.

He departed Judaism as soon as a started adding to the law, called himself the lord of the sabbath, subverted the position of his mother... AND he let people worship him.

But Christians don't really need him to be the perfect Jew to be part of their god concept.

 

[YoursTrue]

if jesus were god and jesus prayed, isn't that bizarre that jesus prayed to himself, asked himself for something he could give himself as god?

I can imagine that some will say Jesus was "God in the flesh," yet -- if he were equal to God who wasnot "in the flesh, that would still mean they were not equal.

 

[Kenny]

if jesus were god and jesus prayed, isn't that bizarre that jesus prayed to himself, asked himself for something he could give himself as god?

This is a topic that continues to run its course.

On a similar but unrelated note, people talk to their bodies, their bodies talk to their minds and my spirit had a discussion with my mind. So, on the surface, not so strange.

But on a more technical and more direct understanding as expressed by Paul:

Though He was in the form of God,
He chose not to cling to equality with God;
7 But He poured Himself out to fill a vessel brand new;
a servant in form
and a man indeed.
The very likeness of humanity,
8 He humbled Himself,
obedient to death—
a merciless death on the cross!

So, while on earth, he was technically void of his God attributes and thus had the capacity to pray to another part of God, the Father.

 

[Kenny]

.

Well, which is it .. 3 or 1?

Think of it this way... do you have a body and a spirit/soul?

 

[YoursTrue]

.


Think of it this way... do you have a body and a spirit/soul?

I hope you don't mind if I bring this verse to your attention. Genesis 2:7 English Revised Version
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." First God formed the man from the dust of the ground, so the body was formed. Then He breathed the breath of life and the man became a living soul. First the body was was formed, then after the breath of life was breathed into his nostrils the man became a living soul.

 

[Ancient Soul]

On one hand, Jesus is a different person to The Father
On the other, they are both the same being

So, would Jesus praying to The Father be bizarre?

No, because when Jesus was on Earth his capacities were limited by his fleshy body, by his meat suit

He was incarnated as an earthly being, as a simple man and that's how he experienced his existence, as a simple man - even though he's God

But yes, it would be unusual

Not buying that.

One is either a God or he isn't. There is no filtering switch to turn off his so-called "Godness".

I have always had a problem with this claim because ever since my first spiritual experience in what some call Heaven, God has ALWAYS given me the spiritual answers that I am seeking, and I'm a nobody. So I will never believe in this Jesus myth. No "god" would have to pray or go learn about himself, "god", from the teachers of all the primitive mythologies of the time period.

 

[Ancient Soul]

He was God but not God The Father

View attachment 70991


Reality is strange

But how do you know that chart is true?

 

[Ancient Soul]

It makes perfect sense to me

There is one divine being - God

Who exists as three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial persons - The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit

If you find it incoherent then that's your problem

WHY would a "god" do that if he's all powerful in the first place?

 

[Fool]

Isaiah 44:24 say the LORD all cap made all things and he was "ALONE", and "By himself". the Son made nothing, but Jesus did..... (smile).

101G.

No the son can do nothing without the father

John 5:19

 

[Fool]

I can imagine that some will say Jesus was "God in the flesh," yet -- if he were equal to God who wasnot "in the flesh, that would still mean they were not equal.

Monism is the idea being conveyed in the idea of John 10:30.

Again the idea is reinforced in John 14:20

 

[Eddi]

It doesn't make it coherent, though.

I'm sure it's coherent to God

 

[YoursTrue]

Monism is the idea being conveyed in the idea of John 10:30.

Again the idea is reinforced in John 14:20

Jesus was in total harmony with the Father, reflecting His viewpoints. It doesn't mean he was God or equal to his Father. It's impossible to kill God. If you say you're one with someone, it doesn't mean you are equal to that person. It means you are in total agreement.

 

[loverofhumanity]

if jesus were god and jesus prayed, isn't that bizarre that jesus prayed to himself, asked himself for something he could give himself as god?

Because He isn’t God.

 

[loverofhumanity]

3 in 1

One being in three persons


I believe it was God's will for that to happen

And the idea would have been in wide circulation way before the bishops voted on it

They didn't just randomly pull the notion out of their back-sides

And if you look at the New Testament (which is divinely inspired) it clearly states that Jesus is God

But regardless of all that:

The Trinity is an ineffable mystery

Something that one can accept without fully understanding.......

I am not in the least surprised that human minds cannot comprehend the mysteries of God

It is proud and hubristic to imagine that we can form adequate understandings of God

But people don't need to because we have Jesus

Here is a link to what is most likely a myth but which captures the truth of the situation:

What a child taught St. Augustine at the seashore

I was born a Catholic and used to believe in the trinity. Now I view it as man made. There is none equal to God. Christ was but His humble Servant.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Can you imagine a triangular prisim?

Yes, I know what a prism is.

Now imagine that the prisim can't spin. And each side is named, father, son, spirit. And only the "son" is facing you. And so all you can see is a 2-d representation of all three sides. The son is facing you, the father and spirit are visible through the side we're calling "son". As long as a person knows that it's a prisim, they can look at this one side, see the other sides through it, and confidentally claim, this is a prisim ( aka God ).

The concept is montheistic based on what is happening internally in that person, in their mind and in their heart.

Yes, I understand that .. but we could claim that God is in 2 parts or 10 parts, in the same way. That is besides the point really.
Claiming Jesus IS God, leads to absurdity, imo.

I'm sure you're aware that Jesus allowed people to worship him, right?

No, I'm not. I am aware that Jesus prayed..

36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.”
37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
- Matthew 26 -

He departed Judaism as soon as a started adding to the law, called himself the lord of the sabbath, subverted the position of his mother... AND he let people worship him.

Jesus had authority, and was widely recognised amongst his people .. the Jews.
He was known as "the King of the Jews".
He gave sermons in synagogues.
It was those in authority in Jerusalem i.e. the Sanhedrin, that wouldn't accept his authority.

But Christians don't really need him to be the perfect Jew to be part of their god concept.

Christianity evolved over centuries, from a Jewish Messianic movement to a gentile church. It is what it is.

 

[Fool]

Jesus was in total harmony with the Father, reflecting His viewpoints. It doesn't mean he was God or equal to his Father. It's impossible to kill God. If you say you're one with someone, it doesn't mean you are equal to that person. It means you are in total agreement.

it's simply called "atonement", also known as "monism" and "oneness".

the spirit of one is the same as the spirit of the other.

otherwise known as christ consciousness

1 Corinthians 2:16

 

[Fool]

Because He isn’t God.

he is but he's only a fractal of that being.


like saying i am in the universe and the universe is in me.


when one looks at something as separate/divided from itself, then the self will treat it as such to the point it might be seen as an object and not possibly deserving respect or consideration.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Not buying that.

One is either a God or he isn't. There is no filtering switch to turn off his so-called "Godness".

No, of course not .. it's absurd.
It started off as an argument over Jesus' Divinity, and once it had been 'established' that Jesus was "fully Divine", the concept of the trinity was developed further, as there was no going back.

It is a church of the Roman aristocracy .. those in purple robes .. and it was enforced on its subjects.

 

[Kenny]

I hope you don't mind if I bring this verse to your attention. Genesis 2:7 English Revised Version
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." First God formed the man from the dust of the ground, so the body was formed. Then He breathed the breath of life and the man became a living soul. First the body was was formed, then after the breath of life was breathed into his nostrils the man became a living soul.

Yes... that is correctly stated.

 

[vulcanlogician]

He was God but not God The Father

View attachment 70991


Reality is strange

So is fiction.