Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

[74x12]

Or, they meant divine nature, as is indicated by using the name God, there. We do note that the Greek, uses same Lord, title, for Father, and Son. We note that Jesus, refers to the "Father", and such, therefore, the divine natures may be assumed to be known by the reader. The Greek text in general, seems to indicate that the reader already is aware of the persons, and how they relate to each other.

I don't believe in persons like the trinity doctrine. God is just one person and He manifests Himself in different ways. Father, Son, holy Spirit are all the same God. The Son was God manifest in human form. (His flesh being formed in the womb, His Spirit being eternal) The holy Spirit is God's Spirit. And God is the Father.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Fine. But if you use the OT, Hebrews or Revelations, I use the non Canon gospel books.

I will use both

OT is the foundation for new testement according to christian doctrine. Doesnt matter which. Gospels are easier to quote though

 

[Phantasman]

Your views dont need to be a defense.



Explain why.



Salvation is the message the creator sent
Word is an incarnation of this message made flesh

Quote defense scripture



Lol please read my posts.

Truth: salvation
Existed before: salvation is eternal
Truth became flesh: aka incarnation of truth/salvation (above)

Please read my post



He also said the devil can mask himself as an angel of light.

Christians could be fooled.



Salvation already existed as truth.

You can only begot flesh not eternal truth

Edit

Salvation IS the truth

Truth in itself doesn't save. Understanding the knowledge truth brings produces works of salvation.

 

[Phantasman]

I will use both

OT is the foundation for new testement according to christian doctrine. Doesnt matter which. Gospels are easier to quote though

Only by the catholic orthodox (one god) theology. The Jews followed a god, who Moses says to not murder, and then murdered. Christ called him a murderer. John 8.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Only by the catholic orthodox (one god) theology. The Jews followed a god, who Moses says to not murder, and then murdered. Christ called him a murderer. John 8.

How do you define your relationship with christ and the gospels? Do you consider yourself christian (saved in christ)?

Jesus taught the law of moses. The law of moses was given by the creator. The law of moses is, in part, not to kill. The foundation of the NT is the law of moses not who killed who, when, and why.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

This word is presumably translated as 'Lord'

In the English Bible, but with so many christians claiming that they should be worshipping 'Yahweh', or that they worship 'Yahweh', where does Jesus ever say to worship 'Yahweh '?

I think its not that common for Jesus to be called that, and also most people just say "God." I have heard some people start calling Jesus Yeh-shoo-uh, but that is not the same. Besides that he is often used interchangeably with 'God' in prayers by some people. I do not generally pray directly to him or any saints, but I am an uneducated bugger.

 

[Phantasman]

How do you define your relationship with christ and the gospels? Do you consider yourself christian (saved in christ)?

Jesus taught the law of moses. The law of moses was given by the creator. The law of moses is, in part, not to kill. The foundation of the NT is the law of moses not who killed who, when, and why.

If the law said to honor your mother and father, why did Jesus say:

Luke 14:26:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, andsisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Let's start there.
Keep in mind, I was an orthodox Nazarene member, youth and music minister for over 20 years, knowing the orthodox way and the Bible.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Luke 14:26:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, andsisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

It means jesus is more important to a person even those of his disciples closest relative. It establishes heirarchy between who jesus is in authority compared to a human mother and father.

Another verse says

Mathew 25:40

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Since you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me.

And

Proverbs 25:6,7 Put not forth yourself in the presence of the king, and stand not …

And this

Matthew 25:45
Then the King will answer, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me

-

Its not refering to loving ones parents. Its differienting people who are the closest to you on earth (ones parents) are not as important as the creator himself.

Keep in mind, I was an orthodox Nazarene member, youth and music minister for over 20 years, knowing the orthodox way and the Bible

Im just a regular jane doe who studied the bible years ago. Im more knowledgable by my experience rather than books. Thats why people dont understand to an extent what I say. Christianity isnt complicated. But I guess the more mystic, the more factual.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Why are we fighting over a name, surely the issue is "who is he to you and in your life"

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This isnt related to my question.
The scripture quotes clutters what you are saying. You can list them above or below your post, if you like.
God is the creator
He has a name
Which is more important? His name or his role?
Why one over the other?
Not what why they are important. I know why.
How is one more important than the other in relation to what you have already posted 'about' it?

I did Not quote any Scripture but showed reference to them.
If someone asked you who your father was how would you reply.
I would like to think most people do know at least the name of their father.
So, by Jesus knowing his Father's name means something.
It shows which God it is that will act in His role as Sovereign of the Universe.

 

[dfnj]

The NT was written in Greek. There is no reference to any deity called Yahweh...but the terms that indicate the Christian God are ò Theòs, Kyrios, Pater.

Translating from ancient Coptic to Greek is where it all went wrong. It's a complete mess, "Jerome began by revising the earlier Latin translations, but ended by going back to the original Greek, bypassing all translations, and going back to the original Hebrew wherever he could instead of the Septuagint."

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't believe in persons like the trinity doctrine.

I find too Jesus thought of himself as the Son of God in answer found at John 10:36.
That was the perfect opportunity for him to tell the truth and say he was God if that was true.
Plus, we find God's spirit in Job's nose according to Job 27:3, surely a person was Not in Job's nostrils.

P.S. When elsewhere you mentioned about the depth's of God' love, I would like to add Romans 11:33 because that is basically telling us why future life will Not be boring. Eternal life will Not be dull because of the depth of God's riches and wisdom and knowledge, how unsearchable His judgements are and beyond tracing out His ways are !

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Only by the catholic orthodox (one god) theology. The Jews followed a god, who Moses says to not murder, and then murdered. Christ called him a murderer. John 8.

I find there is a BIG difference between murder and an execution of the sake of justice for the righteous ones.

At John 8:44 I find Jesus exposes Satan as a liar. Satan was a murderer from the beginning of his going bad.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I did Not quote any Scripture but showed reference to them.
If someone asked you who your father was how would you reply.
I would like to think most people do know at least the name of their father.
So, by Jesus knowing his Father's name means something.
It shows which God it is that will act in His role as Sovereign of the Universe.

My father isn't defined by his name. (Taking out cultural views). His role as a father is what's important. I can call him Jehoshaphat and he'd still be my father. Calling him father, dad, daddy, or Jehoshaphat is not near the pont of his role and relationship as parent.

How does calling god by name make him supreme?

Wouldn't it be his role and relationship to you and calling him any name would be your preference not your obligation?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

My father isn't defined by his name. (Taking out cultural views). His role as a father is what's important. I can call him Jehoshaphat and he'd still be my father. Calling him father, dad, daddy, or jehosaphat is not near the pont of his role and relationship a parent.
How does calling god by name make him supreme?
Wouldn't it be his role and relationship to you and calling him any name would be your preference not your obligation?

As a parent can be known for his role in the family, people usually connect his reputation with his name.
I find Ezekiel 38:23 lets us know that the nations will know who is the LORD (Tetragrammaton) YHWH.
In other words, as Jesus said God's name will be made manifest and declared at John 17:6; John 17:26.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As a parent can be known for his role in the family, people usually connect his reputation with his name.
I find Ezekiel 38:23 lets us know that the nations will know who is the LORD (Tetragrammaton) YHWH.
In other words, as Jesus said God's name will be made manifest and declared at John 17:6; John 17:26.

Taking out cultural views, though, by technicality how is a name seen as just as sacred as the role of the person who has it?

The reputation of my father isnt based on his name. His name is based on his reputation and culture. His character isnt dependent on a name to be a parent. Its his role as a parent first. If he had no name, how would he (and god) be any different if they had no names to label their roles respected or sacred?

 

[Avoice1C]

The Jews and their fathers died. Their souls remained in Hades (the grave) until the truth was ministered to them.
John:
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The Jews were saved by their faith in the law. Not the truth. Once Jesus ministered to them in Hades, they arose and appeared to many (at the crucifixion). Until then, they were dead and "Yahweh" couldn't even save them.

John 6:58
This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Which is why I don't eat the bread (knowledge) of the OT. It's the false gospel Paul spoke of in Galatians 1.

The gospel is the gospel. The Bible the Bible. Orthodox believe the Bible and are many. The Christ follows the Gospel of Christ.

What does your "response" have to do with what I posted? As for Yahweh not being "able" to raise the dead. What about the widows son he raised through Isaiah? What about Jesus appearing with Moses and Elijah. If what you said was true these things could not have happened. Make up your mind.

 

[Estro Felino]

Translating from ancient Coptic to Greek is where it all went wrong. It's a complete mess, "Jerome began by revising the earlier Latin translations, but ended by going back to the original Greek, bypassing all translations, and going back to the original Hebrew wherever he could instead of the Septuagint."

The Septuagint was translated by Hellenized Jews from the Hebrew text...not from Demotic...in the Ptolemaic period.
(Coptic didn't exist yet)

 

[Desert Snake]

How would you interpret this verse?
Colossians 3:17
'God, and the Father by Him'

I don't believe in persons like the trinity doctrine. God is just one person and He manifests Himself in different ways. Father, Son, holy Spirit are all the same God. The Son was God manifest in human form. (His flesh being formed in the womb, His Spirit being eternal) The holy Spirit is God's Spirit. And God is the Father.

 

[Deeje]

It stands to reason that if Jesus said "It is written" and quoted a scripture in the OT where the divine name appeared in the text, that the name should appear in the quoted verse....but seeing as how the Jews had stopped using the divine name and substituted the word "LORD" for YHWH, confusion resulted when the Lord Jesus Christ, somehow became the LORD YHWH (JEHOVAH)

That renders Jesus' statements at Luke 4 nonsensical.
In each of the temptations that the devil brought to Jesus he answered with "It is written" and in each of the quotations the divine name appears in the OT. But when translated into Greek and then to English, the title "Lord" is substituted for YHWH.

In the first instance Jesus said..." “It is written, ‘Man must not live on bread alone.’” Quoting Deuteronomy 8:3 which says..." that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live" (ASV)

The second temptation was satan asking for an act of worship in exchange for all the kingdoms of this world. Jesus replied..."It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." But in Deuteronomy 10:20 that he was quoting it says..."Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; him shalt thou serve; and to him shalt thou cleave, and by his name shalt thou swear." (ASV)

The last temptation was asking Jesus to throw himself off the battlement of the Temple and Jesus saying..."“It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” Where was it said? Deuteronomy 6:16..."Ye shall not tempt Jehovah your God..."

If the quoted scripture had contained the divine name as it had in the original text, there would have been no confusion. If God's name was in the Hebrew text, it should have been in the Greek text too.

Early fragments show that it was left in its Hebrew letters in the Greek text. The timeline illustrates how far back this goes.

A5 The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Psalm 110:1-2 also illustrates the problem of removing God's name from the Bible........."

The Lord says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.”
2 The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter.
Rule in the midst of your enemies!" (ESV)

"The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies." (KJV)

"Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand,
Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2 Jehovah will send forth the rod of thy strength out of Zion:
Rule thou in the midst of thine enemies." (ASV)

"The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: `Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'
2 The rod of thy strength doth Jehovah send from Zion, Rule in the midst of thine enemies." (YLT)

Psalm 110 is a classic example of where the use of the divine name clears up any confusion.
The ESV makes no distinction between the first "Lord" and the second, and the KJV follows the same pattern.

The ASV and the YLT leave us in no doubt who is speaking to whom. It is "Jehovah" saying to David's "Lord" (Messiah) "sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."

Had the divine name been left in the Hebrew and translated into the Greek, the trinity would not exist.