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Featured Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Desert Snake, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Deuteronomy 32:7-9 El Elyon separated the nations among the Elohim, and gave YHVH Israel.
    Yeshua was the spirit of YHVH, so he can't be his own father...

    He said it was his house of prayer in the Synoptic Gospels, that the Children of Israel cast out demons by his name, and that he was the Lord of David.

    Plus the Hebrew text told our people this in advance; yet they didn't understand it:

    H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah
    H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)
    El Elyon is the Source of Reality, and Elohim are manifestations from it.

    David clearly saw it as two distinct references:

    2 Samuel 22:14 & Psalms 18:13 Yahweh thundered from heaven 'and' The Most High uttered his voice. + Psalms 21:7 + Psalms 50:14 + Psalms 78:35 + Psalms 92:1
    That is a good reference; so in Heaven YHVH has infinite potential, when a small part of that is seen in the form of Yeshua being its Right Arm, we see a finite representation.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
  2. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    I'm already aware of this. So what? The Lords prayer doesn't use Yahweh, and if Jesus were so intent on the followers using certain names, you think He would have mentioned it. Ie you're just making up your own Bible, you're fine with changing deity names, based on obscure theories, etc.

    Of course people knew the name JHVH, that isn't even the premise of the thread.
     
    #282 Desert Snake, Jun 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
  3. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Matthew 4:7 Jesus said to him, “Again, it is written, ‘You shall not test the Lord, your God.’”
    Deuteronomy 6:16 You shall not tempt Yahweh your God, as you tempted him in Massah.

    Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve him only.’”
    Deuteronomy 6:13 You shall fear Yahweh your God; and you shall serve him, and shall swear by his name.

    Matthew 5:33 “Again you have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall perform to the Lord your vows,’
    Deuteronomy 23:21 When you vow a vow to Yahweh your God, you shall not be slack to pay it; for Yahweh your God will surely require it of you; and it would be sin in you.

    Yeshua knew Hebrew, and didn't use YHVH as a name, instead it is translated as Lord.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  4. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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    He tells her that her sister, who isn’t helping either, that her sister has chosen the better route. I e listening to Jesus.



    Only if the “real” Jews were not too busy playing politics to teach the people God’s way and show them how it was lived.

    You may know what nationality Caiaphas was. I gathered he was of Jewish blood.



    They aren’t “photo ops”. They are what the apostles tell us of Jesus. John says if they wrote everything they knew or he did there would not be enough books to contain the stories. The Apostles note the times he went apart from them to pray to God.



    I don’t know what that has to do with the sinful getting riled up at Jesus but I’ll try to answer you.

    Judaism worked just fine for 2 generations. David and Solomon ruled the nation successfully, until they each sinned against God, by the Jewish faith. David by killing Uriah and Solomon with his pagan wives that led him astray. Josiah, who came latter, also ruled by the Torah.

    What does that have to do with the timeframe?




    The Jews had risen against the Romans and they would not back down so the Romans came in and totally destroyed the temple and much of Jerusalem. It might behoove you to read up on the history.

    What do you mean by His job? God does not practice mind control. He gives us rules and expects us to obey them. He shows supernatural power to those who obey Him. Not to those who reject His rule.




    How little you understand of Christianity. The laws they live by, no ruler can object to. They do not steal, defraud, murder or frame for crime, they are charitable and kind for the most part. But, because they believe in Jesus, his sacrifice and resurrection and in his Father instead of money or a pantheon of gods, they are killed. Christians tend to upset the status quo and they did in the generations after Jesus rose from the dead. That riles those practicing the status quo who don’t, necessarily, Practice the commandments of God & Christ.
    Legalization did not do much of a favor to the faith as a whole.


    He never claimed to have fixed things and I’d like to know where you got the idea that he did.
    I trust you are speaking of Revelation. It is a complex book and cannot be summed up in such a statement. People will die in stages from famine, thirst, a very hot sun, and battle if I remember right. Mostly I get the impression the care we are giving the earth is the care the earth will give us in the end time.


    “No one” is a figurative term. Like God telling Jeremiah, who was obeying God, that “no one” was following God’s purpose for them. It is not literal which you wouldn’t know without reading the Bible several times
    The serpent was not honest. He told them that they would not die if they ate of the fruit. Yet when they did they knew shame and death. Before they ate they knew neither.


    God forgave through Jesus in all instances. Greek scripture claims the way to God & heaven is through Jesus. We are forgiven of sins when they are rejected from our way of life i.e. repented. This is true in the Prophets of the Hebrew scriptures as well as Greek. Jesus died for everyone believer and not. It is why we witness to people who don’t believe. So they can know the peace Jesus gives on repenting our sins.
    God still forgives through Jesus.

    It comes from the stories in the Hebrew Scriptures. Where do you get your information on this list?

    He baits Jesus to see if he’ll tempt God the Father to fulfill those scriptures with a deliberate action. There is no natural need for God to rescue Jesus and he would be obeying Satan at the time. He makes bread and fish pieces to feed a hungry crowd who has chosen to stay and listen to the word of God. He refused to take the kingship Satan offered. He is king over the kingdom God offered and Jesus earned. Jumping off a cliff would have been tempting God and he would have been obeying Satan to kill himself. He calmed Storms to save his disciples and to calm their fears; there was a need for said action and it furthered the kingdom. Jesus used his powers to further the kingdom in every case. Using them for Satan’s purpose would have been frivolous. Using scripture to Tempt Jesus to Tempt God was falsely using the scriptures. IMO

    Not much is known of Ancient Egyptian law. It started in the 3rd Millennium BCE according to Britannica.com/place/ancient-Egypt. We have no way of knowing how Pharaoh viewed Moses as he was Hebrew drawn from the Nile. Moses killed to preserve life, that is not considered murder and the Hebrews were not valued as much during that timeframe. There may have been strikes which would mean the Egyptian was in the wrong and the strikers were likely Egyptian.

    The Israelites rejected God’s plan to take the land of Canaan after the couple of week crossing. Thus began the 40 year walk until the generation that rejected God’s plan were dead. Then the Israelites took Canaan.

    I remember only once that Jesus spoke that his followers were his mother brothers and sisters. On the cross, Jesus made sure his mother was cared for by John.



    I think they’d know if someone was breathing or not. The Jews had herbs and the like.

    Once they received the Holy Spirit and began to speak in foreign languages, they also became aware of everything they had learned and were empowered to teach and write to the people of their age and us. The haze in their minds that clouded their understanding was lifted and they became as believable as anyone.


    Why not have both? One staves off starvation of the body the other staves off starvation of the soul.
     
  5. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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    Jesus followed Moses and the Prophets of the Hebrew Scriptures. And he said to follow him.
    The Jews of his life were not following the prophets messages and they had legalized Moses and the Torah to their own prophet. These were the Jews he and Paul spoke of as not to follow. Jesus said the Law and the Prophets could be summed up in "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." He also said do unto others what you want done to you. Living by these 2 expressions has one live by the Commandments and the Prophets.
     
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  6. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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    Jesus said to put God and obedience to Him above one's mother and father, brothers and sisters. Fleshly or misled spiritually. Jesus lived by the commandments and Prophets not the legalistic view of the Hebrew Scriptures. He said to follow his example.
     
  7. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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    I think you are being legalistically picky.
     
  8. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    John 1 tells us that we become the sons of the "living" Father. To be a son one has a mother as well. The Holy Spirit is the mother. Yet orthodoxy (catholics) teach fleshly Mary as mother.

    One must open their eyes and raise the veil.

    Matthew 12: (and Luke)
    47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

    48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

    49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

    50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

    Don't believe the Pharisee's and scribes. (priests and documentors). Jesus warns this. They pervert the gospel (Galatians 1).

    The Holy Spirit is not a he. It is not a trinity. The Father is ALL. The church of flesh see's the flesh. Just like the Jews.
     
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  9. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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    Are you saying there is more than one God?

    Genesis 2 from the Complete Jewish Bible for e-Sword says:


    The Creation of Man and Woman

    Gen 2:4 Here is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created. On the day when Adonai(G2316), God, made earth and heaven,

    Gen 2:5 there was as yet no wild bush on the earth, and no wild plant had as yet sprung up; for Adonai, God, had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no one to cultivate the ground.

    Gen 2:6 Rather, a mist went up from the earth which watered the entire surface of the ground.

    Gen 2:7 Then Adonai(G2316), God, formed a person [Hebrew: adam] from the dust of the ground [Hebrew: adamah] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, so that he became a living being.


    Adonai is YHWH and it says YHWH made humankind. One God.



    How was Yeshua the spirit when he was in the flesh as Messiah? Phm_1:3 Grace and shalom to you from God our Father and the Lord Yeshua the Messiah.

    No he can’t be his own Father.


    Of course they didn't. God had dulled the understanding of the lost. Don't forget that the church, while Jesus walked the earth, was made of Jews who did come to understand.
    I’ve always read that as 2 referrals to the same God. Why would they both speak the same words?
    My avatar for RF is a still image with no free choice. Jesus had free choice.
     
  10. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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    The Gospel says Jesus was born of Mary a human woman. He was sired by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not separate from God the Father. The Bible says God's Holy Spirit.
     
  11. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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    I’ve been reading threw the Bible since I was 16. It is the same Bible you use just not twisted by an erring church.

    Jesus didn’t, but Paul equates the Father with YHWH. And notes Jesus as His son. Logically, YHWH is Our Father. You are right in saying it isn’t the purpose of this thread.
     
  12. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    There is ultimately only One God.

    There is one CPU that manifest reality at a quantum level called EL Elyon in the Bible, and then Elohim are beings that are seen by us, manifest by it; with YHVH/Yeshua Elohim its chief Arch Angel.
    YHVH was designer of mankind, etc; yet it says Elohim, which is then plural for the Divine Council.

    Plus anything that is physically seen manifest in this realm is not the CPU; as quantum physics doesn't allow for it.
    It is prophetic from Isaiah 11:2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him: the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

    Also Yeshua is the Right Arm of the Lord (Psalms 98); so is only a part of the whole... Arch Angels can't fit fully into a human body.
    It is the same God, why do you see a difference between the Source of reality, being different to the Arch Angels it manifests?
    The CPU processes Code (Word); Arch Angels are Divine Coders.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  13. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was flesh of flesh. Christ is of spirit. When the true mother (Holy Spirit) entered Jesus, she claimed "this is MY son".

    Luke had to even reclaim it years after Mark and Matthew.

    Luke:
    And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    Luke refers to Jesus birth as a "holy thing" since it wasn't of flesh, but by spirit. Mary remained a virgin.

    The Holy Ghost and the power of the Highest. What is the power of the Highest? Father. What then is the Holy Ghost? Some dude? It is mother, as he referenced it in Luke 8:20-21.

    I don't follow the catholic ideology (orthodox).[/QUOTE]
     
  14. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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    God is not controlled by the natural laws. God is spirit. God created natural law. Do you think of El Elyon as the operating system?

    I think Yeshua is over the Arch Angels. Though I believe he is more than an Arch Angel; an equal with God. Which was God’s plan in creating humankind.


    Quantum physics doesn’t control God the Father. God controls quantum physics.

    Where do you get a Divine Council?


    You limit God. There is nothing God can’t do, including fitting an Arch Angel into a human body. Having the Spirit of the Lord resting on him doesn’t make him a spirit.


    He gives the Arch Angels free will, otherwise we wouldn’t have to worry about Satan.

    Even Satan draws his energy from God; so, also, do we as humans good or bad.

    Jesus has free will, he could have chosen to live despite God’s plan. Fortunately, he chose to do God’s will and earned a spirit body and eternal life.


    Coders control CPU’s, not vice versa. I think you mean Divine programs. We, then, would be subroutines.
     
  15. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    But everyone can listen after the dishes are done. What can't wait? Wouldn't it be more profound if he actually got up off the couch and helped out?

    And yet they don't really mention much in the stories they tell. Jesus is a lot like God in the bible: starts off as supposedly the Main Character but is left with just cameos by the end.

    No, they committed to political infighting while hostile forces wanted control of the land.

    Because Judaism was Hellenizing prior to Rome and Rome made the Greeks look like amateurs and broadening one's horizons was seen as being some sort of blood traitor or something even though by that point probably no one was "purely Jewish" by then anyway. You might, if you can get past the horrible formatting and walls of text, want to read this book. The bible simply can't be properly read without knowing the situation "on the ground" as discovered through history and archaeology.

    From the wiki about it:
    So, there were other motives besides Jewish protests.

    Romans even before the destruction of the temple raided it for supplies and treasure, like Pompeyand such.

    He didn't give the first person to eat the magic fruit a rule to follow. She had to learn it from Adam or something because the rule predates her creation.

    He doesn't have to practice mind control, just basic parenting 101. You don't leave the kids alone with the chips and become shocked to see chip dust all over their faces.

    So the people who most need His assistance are just out of luck. Maybe they reject God because He didn't help them instead of God not helping because He was rejected.

    Did Jesus own any of the livestock or trees he killed when walking around preaching?

    Isn't setting yourself up as the "keeper of the keys" when Jesus himself calls you "Satan" fraud?

    Weren't people murdered, I'm sorry, "victims of the Lord's wrath" *coughcough*?

    Isn't Judas framed for something that had to be done in the first place and no one should've known about because the meetings were supposedly secret?

    Did Christianity not go hog wild after legalization, burning books and buildings and killing people, etc?

    That is what they tell themselves instead of being honest about the real reason, and politics drove most of the issue. Paul has no problem throwing his Jewishness/Christianity under the bus when he's in trouble and touts his Roman citizenship to try to get out of jail. People loyal to Yahweh wouldn't have even considered such a "blasphemous" thing as to be called Matt or John or Peter or ... wait, where was I again?

    So you don't believe he conquered death and sin the first time around?

    And they lived to be nearly 1000 years old. God specifically worded it to sound like taking one bite would kill them instantly. God was the one being dishonest because He reveals mere paragraphs later the VERBATIM reason God REALLY didn't want them to eat the fruit as reported by the serpent. He didn't want us to have powers like He did. The serpent can't be lying unless you admit God is lying too when He confirms it.

    So everything they ate survived the trip through the digestive tract? NOTHING died in front of them the whole time?

    So Jesus, not Jonah, saved the people of Ninevah?

    Christians also witness to believers, suggesting God isn't talking to them at all or you'd expect Him to give them an accurate membership list.

    Lives of the Prophets - Wikipedia

    Feeding them for one meeting isn't as impressive as making sure they stay fed the next day. He goes from town to town, so who feeds the hungry while he's not there?

    His origin was irrelevant as he was an adopted Egyptian royal. He would've known what the laws were.

    Following Moses through the desert got almost everyone from that generation killed. I'd have told Moses "thanks, but no thanks".
    Ancient Egyptian Law

    No wonder Moses would've wanted to avoid a trial.

    Still doesn't even call her "mom".

    His family thought he was crazy.

    Not breathing doesn't necessarily equate to being dead. I'm an RN and such stories interest me highly.

    And they were the ones who taught you that, yes? The people who couldn't be trusted said, "Ok, for real, you can trust us now." And you are good with that.

    We are putting kids in concentration camps thanks to the "soul feeding" of the bible. Adults want to see kids bummed out about being shot at dead, which is totally legit from the "spiritual nutrition" of the bible.

    Historically there were and the bible couldn't hide all the references. El, Asherah, Baal, Yahweh, Anat, Astarte ... all have references all throughout. Monotheism was attempted in ancient Egypt prior to Judaism's crack at it and both instances are largely for the same general purpose: monopolizing political and economic power over the population. Multiple gods mean multiple temples and people not necessarily coming to visit yours. So, they had to go. It would be like Disney buying Six Flags and Universal.
     
  16. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The Word/Logos is the operating system; the CPU (God Most High) processes it.
    Yeah Revelation states this, that 24 Elders (Elohim/Arch Angels), throw down their Crowns to the Lamb, who is ruler in Heaven; yet God Almighty (El Shaddai) is seen as separate still, and the Source of reality.
    Tho agreed God can do what it wants; there are some aspects of quantum physics where when we go beyond the physical matter, antimatter, infinity, chaos, and the edge of the Matrix we exist within; imagine if an infinite being comes into a finite realm, the finite then mingles with the infinite, which is what is prophesied at the very end in many religions...

    Reality its self will disintegrate, as the CPU that did manifests it from a place beyond reality, comes into this realm (Dissolution).
    We get the Divine Council from places like Psalms 82, Revelation, there are many references to the Hosts of Heaven, and Elohim originally referred to the Divine Council.

    If you do a Google search there are many scholars coming to similar conclusions, that Judaism after the Babylonian Exile dropped the idea, and has taught the world contrary to the text.
    Never said God can not do something, said it is impossible, an Arch angel exists in a infinite state with infinite potential, and you want to take a dynamic soul, to fit it into a finite body with limited potential.... A small part of that can exist in one linear timeline.
    Have already shown that Yeshua was already YHVH before incarnating here.

    H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah
    H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)
    Unfortunately with a very limited understanding of infinity, that is easily assumed; when you know that God directs things, even before you're born to make your course move a certain way, we can't avoid it.
    It wasn't a metaphor, it is using complex terminology to define what takes place in reality...

    The CPU manifests the coders, who in turn give us the understanding of things beyond our limited comprehension in a finite perspective.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #296 wizanda, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  17. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Excellent point, yet it is all an infinite metaphor; as we don't expect to send our first born to talk with them, and then we see they've got his blood all over their face, and claim to be him.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it will be revealed that there is no evidence to support that view.

    I believe if the "He" you are referring to is Jesus that the statement is false.

    I believe the text does not say that.

    I believe the "then is not immediate and I don't remember who gave the Spirit of Truth so maybe you can find that for me.

    I believe if you mean the Paraclete when you say "it" then you are correct but it does appear in prophecy.
     
  19. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe there is no evidence to support that view. The text said the Word is God.

    I believe Jesus taught that He is God.
     
  20. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe Jesus did say "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" so already God is more than just truth and the text does say that the Word is God.
     
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