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Featured Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Desert Snake, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Still don't see the examples and scriptures showing what you are saying his other names are.

    Show me the scriptures where he said his name was something besides YHWH.
     
    #241 TrueBeliever37, Jun 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  2. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Please go back and read thru my posts a little more slowly. I have explained it. You can also go to a Bible dictionary and read under the headings YHWH , and LORD. Maybe you will believe them.

    I am saying it is their method of showing that it has the name YHWH in the original Hebrew manuscripts. YHWH is actually what is in the Hebrew text, when we have LORD or GOD in our English text.

    I use the KJV, and the NIV. But it is the same in the ASV, NAS, RSV, and many others. By the way Adonai, and Elohim are both titles, not names.

    YHWH is God's real name. Jehovah is an artificial name.
    For one thing there is no J in the Hebrew language.
     
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  3. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you need to read my post# 235 again. Written after the fact doesn't mean it isn't true. You did see John 2:21 that you sent - right? He was talking about raising his body.
     
    #243 TrueBeliever37, Jun 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  4. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    I'm aware that some Bibles do this, your argument is much more involved than that.

    Using God, there for JHVH, isn't traditional name cross language methodology, and is going to change the inference of Christian Scripture.



    Abstract statement,
    Genesis 1:26

    Jehovah is YHWH, with using a 'j', as in some languages, and indicating vowels, in the name. I find it quite apt.
     
  5. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    I already explained to you that there were verses in the Hebrew that had adonai YHWH in them. If they substituted adonai for the name YHWH, like they normally would, they would end up saying adonai adonai. Rather than do that, they substituted the word elohim (Which is Hebrew for God) instead. So then they would say adonai elohim. When the translation into English occurred it became Lord GOD, letting us know that YHWH was replaced with elohim in the reading of that verse.

    I am not saying that the name YHWH doesn't show up in the Hebrew text. It does, but it has vowel points with it to remind them to say either adonai or elohim instead of the name.

    Some wanna be scholars came along, and saw the name YHWH, and not realizing the vowel points were for a different word, came up with the artificial name Jehovah. J is pronounced like a y in many languages even today. Even in our language - Hallelujah, has the j pronounced like a y. But with the Germanic influence, and possibly a few other reasons, the name ended up being pronounced Jehovah. But it is still an artificial name. There is no J in the Hebrew language, so it is impossible for Jehovah to be God's real name. And remember the vowels they used were vowels from a different word.
     
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  6. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Colossians 3:17

    You interpret this verse, as?
     
  7. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    It's a bad methodology, and changes the inference to the theology of the Bible.
    Adonay, is presumably used for YHWH, it's like saying the same thing.
    Adonai Elohim, is saying, God the father, singular, and God, singular plurality. They both mean God, and they both include God the Father, YHWH isn't replaced with Elohim, because they don't mean the same thing. So, whoever, or whatever group, or Bible, told you that, or is replacing Adonay with Elohim, is arbitrarily replacing deific names, according to some obscure theory, that changes the deific inference, meaning, of the names. Since you aren't the authority, on what was the intent, when Adonay was written, I'm not going to read Scripture according to your, or those, theories, wherever you got them.

    Hence, you write, what, for YHWH? You realize that Yahweh is just another way that some say, JHVH, so, are you saying, that's "wrong"?
    If Yahweh is fine, then why don't you believe that Jehovah, is fine?

    Like I said, I find Jehovah quite apt to express the name that I'm inferencing, and you, or whatever authority, seems like the vague academic mish mash of nothing explained, does not in any way refute my usage of the name Jehovah.
     
  8. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of YHWH YHWSH -
    YHWSH is the true name of the Messiah.
     
  9. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    You evidently don't understand what I have been saying. Hopefully someone else will.

    Adonai and Elohim don't both mean God. Adonai means Lord or Master, while Elohim means God. You can believe and use any name you want. That's between you and God. I have been giving you historical information - if you choose not to believe it that's up to you.

    No need in us discussing this any further. Have a nice day.
     
  10. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Is this the quasi-academic drivel that you are using, to base your deific name usage, on?
    Here, academia says , 'Yahweh', is Jehovah written in Christian English, which it isn't, then proceeds to distance itself, from that usage, with some word acrobatics.

    ...
     
    #250 Desert Snake, Jun 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  11. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Please find someone else to argue with. I can't seem to reason with you.
     
  12. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Adonay doesn't mean God? Then who is being referred to, with Adonay Elohim?
    Of course Adonay means God, as does Elohim.
     
  13. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    It refers to God, but the word adonai itself means my Lord or Master. While the word elohim means God.
    Are you just playing like you can't understand that there is a difference in meaning between these two words, or is it for real?
    Please look up the words in a Bible dictionary.
     
  14. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    I read it. You must not have read mine. Jesus couldn't raise himself. The Father raised him as well as spoke through him.

    John:
    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    In other words, the Holy Spirit given him by the Father that he in turn gave to us after he arose.

    John:
    For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    No man has or ever had heard the Father.
    John:
    And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

    Which means the Jews never heard the Father, the true God who never murdered, but wants to "give" true life.

    John:
    Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    As I said, Jesus only spoke what he heard once he became Christ.
     
  15. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    That was my point, the Father that dwelleth in the son, was the one speaking, and saying Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up. That was why the Messiah was God, because the fulness of the Deity dwelt in him bodily. As I have said in other posts - he was both the Father and the son at the same time. The son was the flesh, and the Father was the eternal Spirit dwelling in the flesh. But the Father and the son are not 2 separate persons of the Godhead.

    Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not. If you aren't agreeing then it sounds like you don't believe what the Messiah said. He could only say that because he was the one and only God manifest in the flesh.
     
  16. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Have a nice day.
     
  17. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Orthodox , of course. "This is my son" was heard twice, the voice of the Holy Spirit, the mother that was in Christ. It is what the word Christ means, of the Chrism (Spirit, capital S). Jesus became the son of God, first Christ. The son was complete with mother and father. It was the spirit that made him have eternal life. His flesh (as Jesus) profited nothing. John 6:63. He became Christ to reach us how to become Christs (sons of God). John 1:12.

    To do so, we become "son" of spiritual mother and father, leaving our fleshly (ideas) of mother and father.

    Luke 14:26 tried to say it, but it was somehow lost in translation. Which is why the protected non Canon books reveals things men have erased or changed.

    Gospel of Thomas spells it out clearer:
    (101) <Jesus said,> "Whoever does not hate his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me. And whoever does not love his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me. For my mother [...], but my true mother gave me life."

    Even with missing words, the Spirit will reveal.
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Revelation 22 starts with the throne of God 'and' of the Lamb. ( 2 persons )
    There are two (2) thrones mentioned at Revelation 3:21, so two persons are speaking in chapter 22.
    Lord God at Revelation 22:6 is YHWH so is also the one of verses 12-14.

    No, Jesus did Not lie at John 2:19. The ' sign ' of John 2:18 was in reference to Jonah.- Matthew 27:40.
    Acts of the Apostles 2:24 says God raised up Jesus.
    Acts of the Apostles 2:32 says that Jesus has God raised up.
    Acts of the Apostles 3:15 says God raised Jesus Jesus
    Acts of the Apostles 5:30 says God raised up Jesus.
    Acts of the Apostles 13:30,37 says God raised Jesus.
    Romans 4:24 says to believe on Him who raised up Jesus from the dead.
    Colossians 2:12 says God raised Jesus.
    so, who resurrected Jesus _______

    I notice at John 20:17 Jesus says I am Not yet ascended to my Father... and your Father and to my God....
    So, to me Jesus is plain that the resurrected Jesus still think he has a God over him.
    So, by doubting Thomas saying in front of Jesus in verse 28 'My Lord and my God', then as a person in front of a reporter might say, " Oh my God " and Not be calling the reporter as God, then Thomas was addressing God just as Jesus addressed his God at John 20:17.
    The king at 1 Kings 3:26 was addressed as Lord, but that did Not make the king as Lord God.

    Why stop at John 10:33 when in honest answer at John 10:36 Jesus truthfully says he is God's Son.
    I notice at John 17:11and John 17:21-23 Jesus prays his followers all be one as he and his Father are one.
    Surely Jesus was Not praying we all be God, but could be one in purpose, unity, faith, goal, will, etc.

    Since God is greater than Jesus at John 14:28, and greater than ALL (everyone) at John 10:29, then God is greater than Jesus.
    Also, the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
     
  19. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    There are not 2 thrones mentioned at Revelation 3:21- he said even as I overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. So that is just one throne.

    Yes in Revelation 22:6 it says YHWH God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. But now read Revelation 22:16 - His true name is YHWSH, but in our version It says, I Jesus have sent my angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. So who sent the angel? As I said he has to be YHWH.

    Who does Revelation 23:20 let us know it is that is coming quickly? He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen, Even so, come, Lord Jesus (YHWH YHWSH).
    Since the one who sent his angel to testify in Revelation 22:16 , is said to be the Lord Jesus (YHWH YHWSH) in Revelation 22:20 , surely you can see that he is the one talking in Revelation 22:12-13 So once again, this proves he is YHWH.

    Let's see how the Greek from the Zondervan interlinear reads for John 20:28 - Answered Thomas and said to him: The Lord of me and The God of me. Now does that sound like it was just an expression like a reporter might say?

    And if you think there are 2 thrones, then you must believe in more than one God. And then I would like to ask you which one is King and Lord of the other? If the messiah is King of Kings and Lord of Lords as Revelation 19:13-16 lets us know. Then do you think the Messiah is King and Lord over your other person the Father?

    You evidently don't understand me, because I do believe God raised up the Messiah, because the Messiah was God manifest in the flesh.
    That is why he was able to say Destroy this temple, and in 3 days I will raise it up.

    Of course the eternal Spirit dwelling in the body, is greater than the fleshly body itself

    Like I tell everyone, you are free to believe whatever you choose.
     
  20. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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