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Jesus Never Existed
- Thread starter Mycroft
- Start date
My hunch is there was some historical person around whom numerous legends and myths grew up. Kind of like Elvis Presley in that numerous legends and myths have grown up around him since his death. I figure my hunch has the advantage of being more plausible than the notion there was no historical Jesus at all.
He probably didn't. Even if he did, it doesn't matter and it's a futile task to try to figure out who the historical person was since the New Testament character is so buried beneath obvious mythology and there's zero mention of him from any of the contemporary historical accounts of the area he was supposedly in. Even in the writings of his earliest followers that we have (none of which were around when Jesus is alleged to have lived) strongly disagree on who or what this Jesus was supposed to be.
So basically it just comes down to what you want to believe about it. Jesus is whoever/whatever you want him to be and that's how it always was.
So basically it just comes down to what you want to believe about it. Jesus is whoever/whatever you want him to be and that's how it always was.
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Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
No he actually existed. It makes common sense anyway. All of this popularity based on a person that never existed? I doubt it. But I can believe someone existed but was exaggerated in some ways. People can be exaggerated but it doesn't mean they don't exist. Saying there's no evidence would be like saying that other historical figures never existed because you don't have a picture. There's statues and books written about them, as well as Jesus. You believe other historical figures existed even though they were around before Jesus, yet don't believe Jesus existed? Doesn't make sense to me.
Jesus existed though I don't think he was the Son of God, although I do think he was a descendent of King David.
Jesus existed though I don't think he was the Son of God, although I do think he was a descendent of King David.
Augustus
…
He almost certainly did exist as there is plenty of evidence that he did exist. None is absolute 100% smoking gun proof, but by the standards of historical enquiry, it still constitutes pretty good evidence.
That's not to say that there isn't a mountain of mythology, but the man almost certainly existed as some kind of Jewish preacher.
That's not to say that there isn't a mountain of mythology, but the man almost certainly existed as some kind of Jewish preacher.
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you.
As far as Muslims are concerned, this is no issue.
Additionally, Ahmadiyya-Muslim book mentions, 'ointment of Jesus' :
" .....A piece of evidence of great value with regard to the escape of Jesus from the Cross, which no one can help admitting, is a medical preparation known as Marham-i-Isa or the 'Ointment of Jesus' recorded in hundreds of medical books. Some of these books were compiled by Christians, some by Magians or Jews, some by Muslims. Most of them are very old. Investigations show that in the beginning the preparation came to be known as an oral tradition among hundreds of thousands of people. Then they recorded it. At first, in the very time of Jesus, a little after the event of the Cross, a pharmaceutical work was compiled in Latin, in which there was a mention of this preparation along with the statement that the preparation had been prepared for the wounds of Jesus. Next, this work was translated into several languages, until, in the time of Mamun-al-Rashid, it was translated into Arabic. It is, moreover, a strange result of divine intervention that eminent physicians of all religions -- Christian, Jew, Magian, or Muslim -- have all mentioned this preparation in their books, and have stated that it was prepared for Jesus by the disciples. A study of books on pharmacology shows that this preparation is very useful in cases of injuries due to blows or falls, arresting immediately the flow of blood; and as it also contains 'myrrh' the wound remains aseptic.........................................
List of books containing a mention of Marham-i-Isa,
and a statement that the ointment was prepared for
Jesus, i.e., for the wounds on his body
..........
"
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch3.html
Marham-i-Isa = Ointment of Jesus
================================================================
Evidence from books of history
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch4.html
Good wishes.
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McBell
Resident Sourpuss
Ouch.
The "common sense" as support does not help.
ROTFLMAO
Mickey Mouse
Batman
Superman
God
There is more written about Harry Potter than there is about Jesus.
So by using your above "logic" Harry Potter actually existed, right?
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
How are you still on this forum? Read this carefully. When I say read, I mean actually read what I wrote, not read the first two lines. Again don't be snobby or resort to schoolyard taunts or say "lolz" every post. It gets old fast.
Anyways Jesus was a preacher who I believe was exaggerated in many ways. He was worshipped later on. Nobody worships Batman and Superman. What point are you even trying to make? That's for fictional entertainment but no one is making a religion out of those characters and believe they existed. Your argument doesn't even make sense to begin with. And don't even use Jediism. They use the philosophy but don't believe Yoda or Obi Wan exist.
Ok Jesus didn't exist. Let's just accept that Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, and Pythagoras never existed either. You'll say "Oh well there's statues and art and books written about them as well as quotes taken from them." Ok...the same applies to Jesus. There are quotes, books, art and statues of him as well. You believe those historical figures existed yet not Jesus? And those guys existed before Jesus was around. Is there proof? Perhaps but we may never find it. But there is certainty evidence he existed. You want proof which is NOT the same thing as evidence. There may not be something that proves his existence, as in, shows that there is undeniable proof of his existence, but there is plenty of evidence SUPPORTING that he existed.
Useless2015
Active Member
Ahmadiya are not muslims. Muslims believe Jesus never was crucified.Muslims believe Jesus is in heaven, never got crucified and will come back. Ahmadiya believe Jesus got crucified and survived and went to India...
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
Rapha
Active Member
Note that i added the little word (anti) before Christ.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Interesting.
I found this. Not read it- which says the opposite.
https://jamesbishopblog.wordpress.com/2015/02/27/11-silly-things-some-atheists-say/
His time was with the Essenes and would be far less known than we think, hence the reason he has little apparently written about him. And what is nice about that? "The righteous will live by faith"
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I might add, we could give evidence to show a lot of people in history never existed either.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Since much of the Bible was taken from previous myth, it is hard to say whether or not he existed. Some of the unique words may have come from a charismatic teacher named Yeshua. You never know.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Well said, yet again.
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
Well said, yet again.
Thank you.
I like the article you had in your posts, too. Really I don't know why the idea of Jesus existing is somehow impossible for other people, especially when they believe other historical figures existed who were around long before Jesus. I think all the books and quotes and art strongly hint that there was a Jesus but as for undeniable proof I guess someone would have to invent a time machine. That's pretty much the only way I can think of where people will get undeniable proof.
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
Sure, but no one is claiming eternal damnation for the majority of human beings based on the existence of King Arthur.
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
We may as well just say most people in history never existed. In fact, maybe almost all didn't exist right? We have no photos or videos of them after all. Although if we did, people can always claim they are fake. But let's throw up our hands and believe almost all didn't exist. Where's the undeniable proof that Pythagoras existed or Caesar? There isn't undeniable proof so that must mean they never existed.
I doubt it. All of them have statues and art as well as books and quotes taken from them. Just like Jesus. But I guess Jesus is somehow the exception for some reason. I don't think he was the Son of God, but that doesn't mean I don't believe he existed.
Someone invent a time machine. That will be the only way that we can get our proof.
I doubt it. All of them have statues and art as well as books and quotes taken from them. Just like Jesus. But I guess Jesus is somehow the exception for some reason. I don't think he was the Son of God, but that doesn't mean I don't believe he existed.
Someone invent a time machine. That will be the only way that we can get our proof.
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
So what are you even trying to say? Look at the evidence around you. The art, quotes books and statues are evidence he existed. I just don't think he was God incarnate. I don't believe that version of Jesus existed, as I feel it's much more likely that Jesus was a knowledgeable preacher who fought the status quo rather than a person who was God incarnate.