• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus loves you

InChrist

Free4ever
I find I Peter 4:17 to be very interesting. I was "crucified" by my parents on October 22, 1969. The day and year correspond to the two Psalms it fulfilled. Psalm 22 and Psalm 69. Also Job 16. My father is Satan the serpent and his real name is "Christian". He is the reincarnation of Adam. The serpent is a part of his anatomy. He will be tried and executed by God. Job 20:25, Isaiah 27:1. Leviathan means "huge serpent" and he was in the Guinness Book of World Records in the early eighties for the biggest serpent in the world. He is the only one who will rot forever in Hell.
I really am having a hard time understanding anything you wrote, but it does seem you are in the midst of a spiritual battle in some way.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Have you ever heard of Herbert W. Armstrong? He wrote a little book called "The United States and Britain in Prophecy". I believe it because it explains a lot and fits in nicely with my beliefs. I think his church was called "The Worldwide Church of God". I am Jewish by faith and most of my doctrine is original. There is some Truth in all religions and I practice an eclectic mix.
I have heard of Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God. As a matter of fact, my husband and I spent a few years studying many, many booklets from this organization (cult) and visited their meetings a few times. It is an Israel replacement group. I was beginning to feel under a lot of pressure as to whether to join this group. There is more to the story of how God stepped in and prevented us from joining and delivered us into the love and freedom of Jesus Christ.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
It doesn't mean anything to me anymore. I feel love and compassion when I contemplate the Ultimate Reality (which isn't a god or being) but that's more due to absence of fear, a sense of serenity and feeling so connected with everything. Nothing to do with Jesus.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this, I just can't help thinking that it is sad to miss out on the love of Jesus which is so very personal, though, as opposed to some impersonal reality.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
"Jesus loves you"

Is this just a trite cliche Christians say to others, something kids are taught in Sunday school or sing in a children's song? Or is it a profound reality with eternal impact that the Creator of heaven and earth loves you?

As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. John 15:9

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13
IMO, most maindtrea Christian theology can't be reconciled with a loving God, so I'd say it's just a cliche.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
IMO, most maindtrea Christian theology can't be reconciled with a loving God, so I'd say it's just a cliche.
My perspective is different, but appreciate you giving your opinion. I guess it depends on what you mean by mainstream Christian theology, though, because some of it is pretty bad. But still that would not alter the truth concerning Jesus' love.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
No, I don't see any rule that one must sin first. I do see that it is simply the reality that everyone does sin and therefore needs forgiveness and cleansing....
But you said, "If God put a stop to sin immediately with a snap of His fingers, as you seem to be implying He should have...then the millions and millions who have been purified for eternity would never have had the opportunity for eternal life." which implies that sinning is necessary for eternal life.

We've been over this subject too many times already. I see no point in getting into again with you. There is no way I will agree with you that God created sin. Such an idea is opposed to the entire message of the Bible, so I think it is something you want to believe to shift the blame.
Consider it as a crime of omission, a failure to act. If you stand by and watch an infant die of drowning while you could have prevented it you're considered to have committed a crime of omission. According to the story, in the Garden of Eden Satan tricked A&E into bringing original sin upon the world.

Question: Did god know this was going on? Answer: Yes, he's omniscient.
Question: Could he have stopped it? Answer: Yes, he's omnipotent.
Question: Did he? Answer: No. he allowed it when he could have stopped it (although it was the water that killed the infant, ultimately you're considered to be responsible for its death)
Question: So who is ultimately responsible for sin? Answer: God.

So don't blame Satan or A&E for bringing sin into the world when the real culprit was god, Hell, even the Bible quotes god as saying he brings evil into the world. So it's no surprise that he also brought sin into the world. God is simply staying in character.
.
 
Last edited:

InChrist

Free4ever
But you said, "If God put a stop to sin immediately with a snap of His fingers, as you seem to be implying He should have...then the millions and millions who have been purified for eternity would never have had the opportunity for eternal life." which implies that sinning is necessary for eternal life.



.
I said that, not because sin is required for eternal life, but because had God put an end to sinful people way back in history then the millions who have repented and been saved would never had had the opportunity to be born.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I come from a very abusive Christian background. I am not ethnically Jewish, but I am Israeli/Scandinavian. The USA is the lost House of Israel. The Vatican is modern day Babylon and Jesus is its king and idol. Isaiah 14, Isaiah 47:1-3. Lucifer means "morning star" and that was who Jesus claimed to be. Revelation 22:16. Christianity is wind and confusion. Isaiah 41:29. They believe Satan's lie in the Garden of Eden, you can sin against God, not keep his commandments, and you won't die. Ezekiel 13:22. Christians are as tenaciously joined to their idols as the children of Israel were in ages past. Jesus has been kicked out of Heaven and reincarnated. This time he will die by bursting into flames. Ezekiel 28:18-19.
One thing of note to make here, it is a common phenomenon that those who grew up in abusive households tend to see God as the strict, vengeful, wrathful deity whose love is conditional upon performance. God becomes a God of fear.

Those who grew up in loving, supportive, and nurturing homes tend to view God as unconditionally loving and forgiving. Grace and loving forgiveness, compassion, understanding, patience, kindness, and the like all tend to reflect their views of God. God is the God of Love for those coming from such households.

I can't see God in the terms you do. He sounds very frightening, and that was not part of my experience of love growing up. Others have different experiences of God where unconditional love defined their experience of life. I was never terrified by abusive parents. It's heartbreaking that was your experience.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
One thing of note to make here, it is a common phenomenon that those who grew up in abusive households tend to see God as the strict, vengeful, wrathful deity whose love is conditional upon performance. God becomes a God of fear.

Those who grew up in loving, supportive, and nurturing homes tend to view God as unconditionally loving and forgiving. Grace and loving forgiveness, compassion, understanding, patience, kindness, and the like all tend to reflect their views of God. God is the God of Love for those coming from such households.

I can't see God in the terms you do. He sounds very frightening, and that was not part of my experience of love growing up. Others have different experiences of God where unconditional love defined their experience of life. I was never terrified by abusive parents. It's heartbreaking that was your experience.

The Biblical god is evil if exists and what is claimed for it true.
 

susanblange

Active Member
But you said, "If God put a stop to sin immediately with a snap of His fingers, as you seem to be implying He should have...then the millions and millions who have been purified for eternity would never have had the opportunity for eternal life." which implies that sinning is necessary for eternal life.


Consider it as a crime of omission, a failure to act. If you stand by and watch an infant die of drowning while you could have prevented it you're considered to have committed a crime of omission. According to the story, in the Garden of Eden Satan tricked A&E into bringing original sin upon the world.

Question: Did god know this was going on? Answer: Yes, he's omniscient.
Question: Could he have stopped it? Answer: Yes, he's omnipotent.
Question: Did he? Answer: No. he allowed it when he could have stopped it (although it was the water that killed the infant, ultimately you're considered to be responsible for its death)
Question: So who is ultimately responsible for sin? Answer: God.

So don't blame Satan or A&E for bringing sin into the world when the real culprit was god, Hell, even the Bible quotes god as saying he brings evil into the world. So it's no surprise that he also brought sin into the world. God is simply staying in character.
.
The sin of the world will be laid upon the shoulders of the Messiah, who is God incarnate. Eve is blamed for bringing sin into the world and the Messiah is the second Eve. Isaiah 53:6. "...and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all".
 

susanblange

Active Member
One thing of note to make here, it is a common phenomenon that those who grew up in abusive households tend to see God as the strict, vengeful, wrathful deity whose love is conditional upon performance. God becomes a God of fear.

Those who grew up in loving, supportive, and nurturing homes tend to view God as unconditionally loving and forgiving. Grace and loving forgiveness, compassion, understanding, patience, kindness, and the like all tend to reflect their views of God. God is the God of Love for those coming from such households.

I can't see God in the terms you do. He sounds very frightening, and that was not part of my experience of love growing up. Others have different experiences of God where unconditional love defined their experience of life. I was never terrified by abusive parents. It's heartbreaking that was your experience.
My parents were never religious and we didn't start going to church until I was about eleven. They would drag my brother and me off to church and we hated it. I think this was because I was getting older and they were afraid of being found out and prosecuted.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have certainly not met any conditions to merit God's love, other than realize He desires to give it and I only needed to receive it. I do believe God's love was always there and pursed me where I was at in my lost and confused world. There was a condition or maybe I should say decision or change of mind though for me to begin enjoying and really know God's love. That decision was a change of direction to turn to God and His goodness, instead of running away from God into my own self-centered world. The Bible calls it repentance, which is simply a change of direction, because while no one is outside God's love, I think there are things which people do defined as sin by God, that are not loving or a part of God's love.
I would agree with this. God's love is unconditionally given to everyone, like the rays of the sun shine freely on the whole planet. The only thing we have to do is walk outside into the sun to enjoy it, rather than hiding inside our caves.

It's not the sun holding back the rays from us, but us hiding ourselves away from them in ourselves. The only dependency or condition is our choosing to avail ourselves of this or not. The Love however is a constant, without interruption from the Source. God's love is therefore unconditional and absolute in its Nature.

That matches my experience of the Divine. It's always there. It's always absolute. But it's a matter of simply seeing it, or blocking ourselves from it. It's not God setting conditions. It's us doing that, for any long list of reasons we choose to do that. In all cases, it's self-inflicted.

I certainly understand a mother's love, as I had such a mom and I am a mom myself who tries to be loving and supportive of my children even as adults now. What a blessing that you have such a mother!
I recently lost my mother to inevitabilities of old age. Now both my parents have gone. I spend my days now reflecting upon that Grace that was given to me through them as my parents.

Yet, I also believe real love includes justice and at times such love must take a stand against what is wrong or harmful.
I don't disagree that there are consequences for our actions. But to understand this natural law of "karma", or "reaping what you sow", should not be projected onto God "punishing us".

I find that view of a "retributive justice" to be inconsistent with the nature of Absolute Love. Vindictiveness is contrary to unconditional Love. It is human and based upon the ego. Rather, these things are just laws of the universe, Truth, Beauty, and Goodness. When we do not work within the "system", so to speak, things start failing and people get hurt.

In other words, it's not God sending punishment our way for violating a set of laws, but rather us reaping the results of not following them, like driving our car outside the lines and going into the ditch and hitting a tree. God did not punish us with the tree. God encourages us to drive responsibility.

But even when we do roll the car and bust a few bones, or worse, there is no judgment against us, no rejection of us, no withdrawal of that Love. That is utterly impossible. You did not fail God. You failed yourself. And God's love calls you back.

That is how I see God's love. His love is there unconditionally for everyone, yet His loves is in the process of purifying and setting all creation, including us free from the destructive impact of sin. Eternity free of sin with God, is His home. Anyone who wants to keep practicing destructive attitudes and behaviors which harm themselves and others will not be allowed to live there.
It's not a matter of them being allowed or disallowed by God because we either measured up and failed to measure up to a set of externalized laws handed down by an externalized law-giver. Those "laws" are inherent in the fabric of the universe itself.

Heaven and hell, I have found, exist in the present moment, at all times. The timeless, Eternal, is not after this life, but is in this life and all lifetimes that every have been and ever will be. As we live inside the worlds created by our darkened imaginations, that separates us from the ever-present, absolute, and unconditional Divine Love in every moment. We are in hell right now, when we live our of touch with that.

Conversely, when we surrender and open ourselves to that right now, in every moment, we are now free from that prison we created for ourselves through living inside of our worlds of fear. From inside that world, God appears fearful. But being liberated from that world, God appears as God is, pure, and unconditional Love. We see through a different set of eyes, one conditioned by the mind of fear, guilt, shame, anger, pride, etc, or one set free by Grace, Love, Courage, Forgiveness, and Divine Light, or revelation. All in the present moment, both heaven, or hell.

My dad said to me as a child, "What we don't resolve in this world, we have to in the next". It's not that God will make all your stuff you don't let go of stop plaguing you. That's up to you. God will not do it for you, in this life, or the next.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Biblical god is evil if exists and what is claimed for it true.
But actually, the "Biblical God" is a reflection of boths points of view that humans have about God. You find both a God of distributive justice, as well as retributive justice on its pages. The Bible is a collection of shifting human perspectives of the Divine in human history and culture. You can actually map out the shifts matching to the worlds they were part of at the time. In times of peace, God is fair and just and calling people to peace. In times of conflict and oppression, God is vindictive and punishing.

This becomes a tension for people who see God as Love, when they read about a jealous vindictive deity. And incomprehensible to those who see God as wrathful and frightening to hear of unconditional love. Somehow, that unconditional love becomes distorted to have firm conditions attached to them.

All of it is reflective our own individual and collective experiences of the ourselves in the face of the Absolute, or God. What the "Biblical God" is, is a picture of our own diverse and often warring natures between peace and war, love and fear, compassion and indifference.
 
Top