1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Jesus is God

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Teritos, Mar 3, 2021.

Tags:
  1. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2021
    Messages:
    270
    Ratings:
    +76
    Religion:
    Christian
    Isaiah 35:4-6
    Say to those who are timid of heart: Be strong, do not fear! Behold, your God is coming, revenge is coming, the vengeance of God! He himself is coming and will save you. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be opened; then shall the lame leap like a deer, and the tongue of the mute shall rejoice.

    Luke 7:22-23
    And Jesus answered and said unto them: Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have good news preached to them; and blessed is he who does not take offense at me.

    Jesus is God's incarnation. From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible wants us to say that Jesus is Yahweh.

    John 8:24
    Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I Am He, you will die in your sins.

    Isaiah 43:10
    You are my witnesses, says Yahweh, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me, and see that I Am He. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there shall be none.
     
  2. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,565
    Ratings:
    +5,731
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God.

    Regards Tony
     
  3. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,826
    Ratings:
    +1,237
    Religion:
    seeking
    You must first define the word "God". There is no being named God. There is a being named the Father or Heavenly Father. And there is a being who is the Son of the Father. Both of these beings make up what is called God. No, it is not two Gods. Let's say there is a husband named John Doe and a wife named Jane Doe. They make up one family named Doe. Two people, one family. Two beings, one God.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    8,778
    Ratings:
    +5,963
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Maybe Jesus wanted to be worshipped, and the authors of the Chrisitan bible felt he was right...

    no big whoop
     
  5. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2021
    Messages:
    270
    Ratings:
    +76
    Religion:
    Christian
    The authors of the NT are Jews who recognized that Jesus is their Yahweh.
     
  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    8,778
    Ratings:
    +5,963
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Maybe they were wrong and embellished the story.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,181
    Ratings:
    +2,290
    I find Yahweh is popular with Hebrew scholars as to how to pronounce God's name ( Tetragrammaton YHWH )
    Whereas, Jesus is Not Yahweh but as Yehohshu'a. ( Or Jesus in Greek as Iesous')
    So, Isaiah 43:10 is bringing God's personal name to the forefront.
    This is why Jesus, as a Jew on Earth, was a witness for his God - John 17:25-26; Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,181
    Ratings:
    +2,290
    I am wondering then why did Jesus say what he did at John 17:6 and John 17:26 __________________________
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,181
    Ratings:
    +2,290
    Both God and Lord are title words, like Father or Son are titles but none are the Tetragrammaton.
    YHWH is Not God but God's name.
     
  10. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,412
    Ratings:
    +6,081
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    I agree, @Teritos, that Jesus is God. He is not, however, "God the Father."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,826
    Ratings:
    +1,237
    Religion:
    seeking
    I look at it as if "God" is a last name. You have Father God and Jesus God. Two "persons" but making up one God. Just like John Doe and Jane Doe are two persons making up one Doe family.
     
  12. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,412
    Ratings:
    +6,081
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    I see what you mean, and I agree with the concept, but rather than thinking of "God" as a last name, I think of it as a title that two individuals share.
     
  13. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,826
    Ratings:
    +1,237
    Religion:
    seeking
    I can see that. Last name is probably not the best wat to describe it. Maybe think of a sports team. Several players make up one team. Several "persons" make up one God. I think we agree on the basic idea. Thanks.
     
  14. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,107
    Ratings:
    +16,003
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Isaiah is not about Jesus as it's about the Israelites in exile in the Babylonian Empire several hundred years before Jesus' time. The "Suffering Servant" account is Israel personified. In Christianity, the "Suffering Servant" is sort of a prototype for Jesus, thus persecuted but then redeemed.

    In Catholicism, we do not believe Jesus is God the Father but is of God the Father, much like the Holy Spirit is. To have Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit actually being God would make Christianity polytheistic, which is not what we believe in.
     
  15. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,826
    Ratings:
    +1,237
    Religion:
    seeking
    Here is something I just thought of that gives an idea what God is like. Years ago I had a brief job "out in the middle of nowhere". There was no place to buy food so I had to carry my lunch with me. So let's say I put one sandwich and one apple in my lunchbox. That means there were two completely separate and different items in my lunchbox. But it was perfectly correct for me to say there was ONE lunch in my lunchbox. Two items but one lunch. Now I know God cannot fit in a box but let's pretend for a minute. If I put the Father and the Son in a box, that would be two separate and different persons just like the sandwich and apple are two separate things. But I could also say that everything in the box is ONE God just like one lunch. Now the Bible says God is a spirit. Not God has a spirit. So everything in the box is a spirit. And God is holy so everything in the box is holy. So everythging in the box is a holy spirit. Two persons, one spirit, one God. God does not need a separate third person spirit because God IS a spirit. Now all this talk about lunch is making me hungry so I will check back later to see why people think this description of God is wrong. I'm sure there will be many reasons.
     
  16. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,412
    Ratings:
    +6,081
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    Whether God is "a spirit" or just "spirit" depends upon which transaction of the Bible you're using. In Greek, there are no indefinite articles (a and an), so "God is spirit" is just as accurate a translation as "God is a spirit" is. The thing is, the Bible also tells us that "God is light" and "God is love." Therefore, if He is spirit, light and love, those three things must be some of His attributes rather than an attempt to define Him. But here's what I find interesting: Elsewhere in the Bible, "pneuma" is generally translated, not as meaning "spirit," but as meaning "life." So, it is actually just as accurate to say that "God is life" as it is to say that "God is spirit." In other words, He is life itself, the source of all life. To me, that's what John 4:24 is saying. It is not saying that God is an immaterial essence that fills the universe and is everywhere at once. There are several indications in the Bible that God does actually have a physical form like that of a human being, but I won't go into them here since that would tend to derail the thread, which was intended by the OP to be a discussion of whether Jesus is God or not.

    In your example, I'd agree that everything in the box is holy but not that everything in the box is spirit. I'm assuming, by the way, that when you say that everything in the box is spirit, you must mean that Jesus is spirit, too. And that, of course, would mean that you don't believe His physical body was resurrected from the dead and made alive again by the indwelling of His spirit, but instead that His spirit also died on the cross and it alone was resurrected. If I've misunderstood what you believe in this regard, please feel free to correct me, as it wasn't my intention to be putting words in your mouth.

    Of course this statement would only hold true if God was solely a spirit and not a spirit giving life to an immortal, corporeal body. If, however, as I believe, the Father and the Son are both beings of flesh and bone that are given eternal life through the existence of their spirit, then there is every reason in the world for there also to be a Holy Spirit. I believe that the Holy Spirit is known by that title for the express reason that He is unique with respect to the fact that He, unlike the Father and the Son, is spirit alone.
     
    #16 Katzpur, Mar 5, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  17. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,826
    Ratings:
    +1,237
    Religion:
    seeking
    Of course this statement would only hold true if God was solely a spirit and not a spirit giving life to an immortal, corporeal body. If, however, as I believe, the Father and the Son are both beings of flesh and bone that are given eternal life through the existence of their spirit, then there is every reason in the world for there also to be a Holy Spirit. I believe that the Holy Spirit is known by that title for the express reason that He is unique with respect to the fact that He, unlike the Father and the Son, is spirit alone.[/QUOTE]
    I do not believe the Father ever had a physical body. I do not believe there are any physical bodies in Heaven. I am not sure anyone really knows what happened to Jesus physical body after he rose fron the tomb but I do not believe it ended up in Heaven. If the Father is spirit and the Son is spirit there is no need for a third person spirit. The Father and Son are spirit and are holy.
     
  18. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,412
    Ratings:
    +6,081
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    I'm curious as to why you don't believe His body ended up in heaven. When He was last seen, He was ascending into heaven and He had His body as people were watching Him.

    Are you implying that they are holy because they are spirit and could not be holy if they had bodies?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,826
    Ratings:
    +1,237
    Religion:
    seeking
    1. Do you really believe there is a 2000 year old physical body sitting on a cloud somewhere?
    2. They are holy because only God is holy.
     
  20. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,412
    Ratings:
    +6,081
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    A resurrected body is eternally in its perfect state. It is immortal, and therefore no longer subject to aging, disease, injury or anything else. Note: I'd going to be a lot more inclined to want to interact with you in the future if you'd make more of an effort not to resort to sarcasm and ridicule. And please don't deny that that's exactly what you did in your "2000 year old body on a cloud" comment. The fact that we may have a difference of opinion doesn't give you license to be disrespectful.

    Okay, so their holiness has nothing to do with whether they have a body or not. They are holy simply because they are "God." I can go along with that.
     
Loading...