1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus Hasn't Returned Because of a Lack of Donations.

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by John53, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    14,923
    Ratings:
    +5,155
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Acts 1:10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,”they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    30,827
    Ratings:
    +8,939
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I have my own interpretation of the following verses:

    Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

    The disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven, in like manner.

    The verse does not say that the disciples saw a body go up. It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

    Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of a human being. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.
     
  3. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    14,923
    Ratings:
    +5,155
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    I can't see it that way.... they saw him going up. You may say that it doesn't say it was his body, but it also doesn't say it wasn't his body. They saw something go up, otherwise they wouldn't be looking. They didn't see his spirit, they saw his body. His body was resurrected and it it was obvious that his body wasn't there any more since otherwise, his body would still be on this earth or, at the least, on the earth of his time.

    In addition the return:'

    Zech 14:5b" and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee". is the prophecy

    and again:

    Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    the fulfillment:

    It is understood that Jesus will walk through the Eastern Gate and the return of Rev 19 will happen.

    Just too many scriptures to interpret it differently
     
    #23 KenS, Sep 25, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    30,827
    Ratings:
    +8,939
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    You are correct, there are a lot of scriptures and they can be interpreted differently.

    How is it possible that Jesus will walk on earth again in light of what Jesus said?

    John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

    John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
     
  5. Jeremiah Ames

    Jeremiah Ames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,946
    Ratings:
    +1,614
    Religion:
    Areligious Christian
    Yay. Great post.

    Why is this concept so lost in Christianity?

    What are people looking for in this mysterious future “return”?

    It baffles me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    30,827
    Ratings:
    +8,939
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    It doesn't baffle me much since I have studied psychology a lot more than I have studied religion. ;)

    So my conclusion is that what Christians believe is what they want to believe, even though it is contradicted by their own scriptures. It is all about what they want. They want to believe that Jesus is going to return so they will continue to believe it forever. It is all about hope. One cannot take hope away from people, they would have to decide to give it up by themselves. Very few do.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  7. Peter Stanley

    Peter Stanley Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2020
    Messages:
    85
    Ratings:
    +8
    Religion:
    Not sure

    The Gospel of Matthew chapter 24 verse 30 clear describes Jesus return in his own words.
     
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    30,827
    Ratings:
    +8,939
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The Coming of the Son of Man

    29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Why would anyone believe that Jesus was describing His own return to this world?

    John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

    John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

    John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


    Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?
     
  9. Peter Stanley

    Peter Stanley Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2020
    Messages:
    85
    Ratings:
    +8
    Religion:
    Not sure
    they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    I guess you just over look that line because it doesn't work for you? Its Jesus speaking in Matthew to the deciples.
    I guess Jesus won't be here for the antichrist when the time comes he will be up in heaven.
     
    #29 Peter Stanley, Oct 1, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    30,827
    Ratings:
    +8,939
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    It has nothing to do with what works for me, Jesus said what Jesus said.
    I guess you overlook what Jesus said shortly before He died:

    John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

    John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

    Jesus said we would see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory. Jesus never said you will see me coming in the clouds with power and great glory, and that is precisely why we have not seen Jesus return even though all the prophecies for the return of Christ have been fulfilled.

    Do you really think that Jesus is the only man who ever held the title Son of man?

    Son of man is not a title that belongs exclusively to Jesus.

    37 Bible verses about Son Of Man


    Son of man

    "Son of man", "son of Adam", or "like a man", are phrases used in the Hebrew Bible, various apocalyptic works of the intertestamental period, and in the Greek New Testament. In the indefinite form ("son of Adam", "son of man", "like a man") used in the Hebrew Bible it is a form of address, or it contrasts human beings against God and the angels, or contrasts foreign nations (like Persia and Babylon), which are often represented as animals in apocalyptic writings (bear, goat, or ram), with Israel which is represented as human (a "son of man"), or it signifies an eschatological human figure.

    In its indefinite form it is used in the Greek Old Testament, Biblical apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha. The Greek New Testament uses the earlier indefinite form while introducing a novel definite form, "the son of man."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_man
     
Loading...