JESUS, God, the Ordinal First and Last

[101G]

The Godhead, or Godhead(s)?
There is one God who is the Head of both CREATIONS, the OLD CREATION, and the NEW CREATION.
Scripture, Isaiah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."

Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

he who sit on the throne is the "Lord" JESUS who will make all things new.

Question Time, is the LORD, all cap in the OT is the same God who will make all things New, or is it the Lord, only the "L" is capitalized, who will make all things new.

are these two separate persons, the "LORD", and the "Lord"? 101G say no, it's the same one Person in the ECHAD, of TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK.

these, and many other scriptures indicate the same one person as God in the titles of "LORD" and "Lord".

this is a mystery of God revealed, in being the First and the Last. the same one person.

not two, nor three persons, but only one in the same person. this mystery is revealed in Genesis 1:1

101G.

 

[fantome profane]

Question Time, is the LORD, all cap in the OT is the same God who will make all things New, or is it the Lord, only the "L" is capitalized, who will make all things new.

are these two separate persons, the "LORD", and the "Lord"? 101G say no, it's the same one Person in the ECHAD, of TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK.

The Hebrew alphabet has no capital letters.

 

[Rival]

What are you trying to prove here?

 

[Rival]

The Hebrew alphabet has no capital letters.

No but there is a convention to translate the name of God where written as LORD and 'Adoni' or 'Adonai', also Lord, as, 'Lord'. Indicating that one translates the unsayable Name and one is just a title which may be for God or a human. Even Hebrew translations do this and put HASHEM instead of Yhwh.

 

[fantome profane]

No but there is a convention to translate the name of God where written as LORD and 'Adoni' or 'Adonai', also Lord, as, 'Lord'. Indicating that one translates the unsayable Name and one is just a title which may be for God or a human. Even Hebrew translations do this and put HASHEM instead of Yhwh.

Fair enough. And this could be evidence of what the people who did the translations believed. But it wasn't in the original text, and you can't use the decisions made by the translators to draw conclusions about what ancient Hebrews believed.

And I am not even going to enter the discussion about whether the point the OP is trying to make is actually true.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hi 101G

In Matthew 7:21 we read:

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Jesus here clearly refers to Himself as Lord but to God as ‘My Father in heaven’ indicating Christ is clearly a separate entity to God.

So Christ is from God, was sent by God but is not God Almighty.

Let’s use a polished mirror. If we face this clear mirror towards the sun, we will see the sun reflected in the mirror. But the sun has not descended into the mirror.

So we see the reflection of God in Jesus but God is not Jesus.

This explains where Christ said ‘My Father and I are one’. Because He perfectly reflected God.

And where Jesus says ‘My Father is greater than I’ makes sense because God is only reflected in Christ and thus greater than Him as Jesus said.

 

[dybmh]

this is a mystery of God revealed, in being the First and the Last. the same one person.

The mystery is revealed, Christianity is monotheistic!

 

[Rival]

Fair enough. And this could be evidence of what the people who did the translations believed. But it wasn't in the original text, and you can't use the decisions made by the translators to draw conclusions about what ancient Hebrews believed.

And I am not even going to enter the discussion about whether the point the OP is trying to make is actually true.

Well, it is in the original text if you mark a difference between the Divine Name of God and just his titles (i.e., Lord, Master). In French the Name is in some Bible's 'L'Eternel'. Various worlds are used in place of the Divine Name, which hasn't been pronounced or written in in such books since around the Second Temple period.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The mystery is revealed, Christianity is monotheistic!

That's some major Pagan mojo going on with that. Three entities, one not mentioned or discussed as a god, another not really calling himself god with one of his few biographers making abit of a case for it, and a third one who has went on since the beginning there are no other gods except him and declared it blasphemy to have any gods but him, but somehow they remain separate but are all the same and somehow not violating the no other gods part.

 

[dybmh]

That's some major Pagan mojo going on with that. Three entities, one not mentioned or discussed as a god, another not really calling himself god with one of his few biographers making abit of a case for it, and a third one who has went on since the beginning there are no other gods except him and declared it blasphemy to have any gods but him, but somehow they remain separate but are all the same and somehow not violating the no other gods part.

I think it can still be montheistic if they're all just different ways the same 1 god is revealed at different times and different places. While I agree that it seems to encourage worshipping forms and images which is a trait of pagan practice. Perhaps the distinction is not between mono / poly but instead the distinction is liberal / strict?

 

[101G]

The Hebrew alphabet has no capital letters.

thanks for the reply, but the context determine it.

101G

 

[101G]

What are you trying to prove here?

prove? nothing... just pointing out TRUTH that have not been brought to LIGHT.

101G

 

[Rival]

prove? nothing... just pointing out TRUTH that have not been brought to LIGHT.

101G

What truth?

 

[101G]

No but there is a convention to translate the name of God where written as LORD and 'Adoni' or 'Adonai', also Lord, as, 'Lord'. Indicating that one translates the unsayable Name and one is just a title which may be for God or a human. Even Hebrew translations do this and put HASHEM instead of Yhwh.

correct, the context determines if it is speaking of humans or God. especially at Psalms 110:1 and verse 5.

101G.

 

[101G]

Fair enough. And this could be evidence of what the people who did the translations believed. But it wasn't in the original text, and you can't use the decisions made by the translators to draw conclusions about what ancient Hebrews believed.

the modern Hebrew we have today was TRANSLATED from the Original Language. pictographic. so Hebrew today is not the Original language.

101G.

 

[101G]

What truth?

God is a plurality of himself in NATURE, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK.

these are bible FACTS in Scriptures themself.

101G.

 

[101G]

Jesus here clearly refers to Himself as Lord but to God as ‘My Father in heaven’ indicating Christ is clearly a separate entity to God.

thanks for the reply, but we disagree with you, and here's why. John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

while talking to Nicodemus in a body of flesh, ON EARTH, in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v. state. he, the Lord Jesus, was in heaven, in his Spirit states, the Ordinal First, at the same time he was on EARTH talking to Nicodemus. READ John 3:13 again.

So Christ is from God, was sent by God but is not God Almighty.

ERROR, he is almighty God, (in Nature), but not as Son on EARTH in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.State while in Flesh and Bloopd. but upon resurrection he is in Amalgamation of Spirit, Heaven, and Flesh, Earth. that's why he returned in Spirit on the day of Pentecost.,

Let’s use a polished mirror. If we face this clear mirror towards the sun, we will see the sun reflected in the mirror. But the sun has not descended into the mirror.

So we see the reflection of God in Jesus but God is not Jesus.

This explains where Christ said ‘My Father and I are one’. Because He perfectly reflected God.

ERROR, not a reflection, but the EQUAL "SHARE" of the same substance. picture this in your mind, (crude, but the best example). a pitcher of water being poured into a glass. the water flow from the pitcher into the glass, but the pitcher never runs out, and the glass never overflow. what's in the pitcher is exactly what's in the Glass.

the same thing, here with God the same one person.

101G

 

[Fool]

The Godhead, or Godhead(s)?
There is one God who is the Head of both CREATIONS, the OLD CREATION, and the NEW CREATION.
Scripture, Isaiah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."

Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

he who sit on the throne is the "Lord" JESUS who will make all things new.

Question Time, is the LORD, all cap in the OT is the same God who will make all things New, or is it the Lord, only the "L" is capitalized, who will make all things new.

are these two separate persons, the "LORD", and the "Lord"? 101G say no, it's the same one Person in the ECHAD, of TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK.

these, and many other scriptures indicate the same one person as God in the titles of "LORD" and "Lord".

this is a mystery of God revealed, in being the First and the Last. the same one person.

not two, nor three persons, but only one in the same person. this mystery is revealed in Genesis 1:1

101G.

jesus was made after the order of melchizedek and not melchizedek after the order of jesus. the personality doesn't survive when it converts from a soul to just a spirit. god is spirit; lest you forget and the father is greater than the son.

god is all and in all as colossians 3:11 states and as the name implies in isaiah 66:5

 

[paarsurrey]

JESUS, God, the Ordinal First and Last

For any godhead (Jesus) had to claim himself in
in the first person in an unambiguous, unequivocal and straightforward manner and give reasons/arguments, which Yeshua never did, right?
Isn't it an accusation/blame of the Paulian-" Christians" that Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah ever claimed godhead for himself, please. Right?
Others claims for his godhead are therefore in vain, if he did not claim himself, please. Right?

Regards

 

[Wildswanderer]

not two, nor three persons, but only one in the same person. this mystery is revealed in Genesis 1:1

Three persons but yes all the same person.