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Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
I was going to say exactly that. Because Christians interpret the Bible differently they come up with different beliefs.
I have told them this myriad times, but they keep saying, "but the Bible says." Then I explain that the Bible does not SAY anything because a book does not talk. Rather, people read the words and interpret them as they read and assign meanings to them.

Why people cannot understand what is so simple I will never understand. :confused: I think it has something to do with ego and believing they know what the Bible means, so they do not even try to understand what I am saying to them. This has been going on for eight years and it is really tiring. :( You by contrast are like a breath of fresh air every time you come around. :)
I appreciate that, Trailblazer. :thumbsup:Part of it is Christians believing they are God's chosen people. That's a real problem.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Yet another example of how disjointed the religion is. I think most Christians have their own particular set of beliefs on everything Christian from soup to nuts. For them "Christian" is just a label, it's not a way to actually believe.
As an aside, we can watch Christians disagree about what "the same Bible" means on this thread:

Why is salvation the ultimate goal of so many Christians?

But we cannot post there because we are not Christians.
I really like Katzpur's views. :)
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Christians don't believe in reincarnation. They say it's a Hindu belief therefore it is a pagan belief.

Reincarnation is not mentioned in the Bible. The human soul was created to live forever and everyone has eternity in their hearts. What is the breath of life? | GotQuestions.org

The word formed is a translation of the Hebrew yatsar, which means “to mold, shape, or form.” It conjures an image of a potter who has the intelligence and the power to form his creation. God is the Master Potter who had the image of man within His mind and who possesses the power and the intelligence to bring that image to life. God had both the omniscience (all-knowledge) and the omnipotence (all-power) to do exactly what He wanted.

Second, God breathed His own breath of life into man. Man is more than “dust” or physical substance. Man has a spirit. We can picture it this way: Adam’s body had just been formed by God from the dust of the earth—a lifeless human body lying on the ground. Then God leaned over and “breathed” His own “breath of life” into the man’s nostrils; God is the Source of life, and He directly placed life within man. This breath of life is seen again in John 20:22, as Jesus imparts new life to His disciples.

Third, Genesis 2:7 tells us that man became a living soul (KJV). The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh, meaning “an animated, breathing, conscious, and living being.” Man did not become a living soul until God breathed life into him. As a physical, animate, rational, and spiritual being, man is unique among all living things upon the earth.

So, what is the breath of God? It is the life and power of God, given to man to animate him. The Hebrew word for spirit is ruach, which means “wind, breath, air, spirit.” The life of God lives on and on; the immaterial part of man was designed to live eternally. The only question is where will we live?

What does it mean that we have eternity in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)? | GotQuestions.org

The larger context of the chapter aids our understanding of verse 11. Ecclesiastes 3:1 says, “There is a time for everything, / and a season for every activity under the heavens.” The next seven verses list a series of contrasts: love and hate, scattering and gathering, tearing and mending, weeping and laughter. Then comes verse 11, which begins, “He has made everything beautiful in its time.” In other words, life is comprised of opposite experiences in balance; God has appointed each to its season. Each season is to be considered as part of a whole.

Seasons come and go, but does anything in this life truly satisfy? The answer in Ecclesiastes is, no, all is vanity (Ecclesiastes 1:2). However, through all the ups and downs and vicissitudes of life, we have a glimpse of stability—God has “set eternity in the human heart.” Life is but a vapor (James 4:14), but we know there is something past this life. We have a divinely implanted awareness that the soul lives forever. This world is not our home.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
I was going to say exactly that. Because Christians interpret the Bible differently they come up with different beliefs.
LOL! Would you really expect anything else? Talk about stating the obvious! You do realize that I could just as easily say "Because Baha'is interpret the Bible differently they come up with different beliefs".
(But I would not say this because it is, or it should be - self-evident.)

Then I explain that the Bible does not SAY anything because a book does not talk. Rather, people read the words and interpret them as they read and assign meanings to them.

And do you really think that those who say "The Bible says..." mean that the Bible literally talks to them? Surely they read the words and interpret them as they read and assign meanings to them? No?
Why people cannot understand what is so simple I will never understand.
I understand WHY you don't understand. It's because you think you know what the Bible means.
:confused: I think it has something to do with ego and believing they know what the Bible means, so they do not even try to understand what I am saying to them.
This has been going on for eight years and it is really tiring. :(
That's because you are devoid of understanding. Don't make yourself tired; go and do something different. I don't think that apologetics is for you, Tb.
You by contrast are like a breath of fresh air every time you come around. :)
Ha! Very telling!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
LOL! Would you really expect anything else? Talk about stating the obvious! You do realize that I could just as easily say "Because Baha'is interpret the Bible differently they come up with different beliefs".
(But I would not say this because it is, or it should be - self-evident.)
Maybe it is self-evident to you, but it is not self-evident to everyone, even though it should be.
And do you really think that those who say "The Bible says..." mean that the Bible literally talks to them? Surely they read the words and interpret them as they read and assign meanings to them? No?
No, what they think is that the Bible can have only one meaning, what they believe it means.
I understand WHY you don't understand. It's because you think you know what the Bible means.
No, not at all. It has nothing to do with what I believe the Bible means, and the Bible can have many meanings, not just one. I don’t know what every verse means but I know what some verses do not mean, because I know what happened after the Bible was written.
That's because you are devoid of understanding. Don't make yourself tired; go and do something different. I don't think that apologetics is for you, Tb.
Devoid of understanding of what, what the Bible means? Who gave you authority to interpret that Bible correctly? Jesus certainly didn’t confer any authority upon anyone to interpret the Bible So the hundred-dollar question is why you believe you know what the Bible means. I have been asking the same question of Christians for eight years and still no answer has been forthcoming.

More precisely, how can Christians all know what the Bible means when they don't all agree as to what it means? This is logically impossible. Some or all of them have to be wrong about the correct meaning, the meaning God intended. Christians say it is the Holy Spirit guiding them, so why does the Holy Spirit guide them in different directions? It is only ego that makes people believe they know what the Bible means better than other people know, it is not the Holy Spiirt.
 
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Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It's My Birthday!
More precisely, how can Christians all know what the Bible means when they don't all agree as to what it means? This is logically impossible. Some or all of them have to be wrong about the correct meaning, the meaning God intended. Christians say it is the Holy Spirit guiding them, so why does the Holy Spirit guide them in different directions? It is only ego that makes people believe they know what the Bible means better than other people know, it is not the Holy Spiirt.
Good point.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Maybe it is self-evident to you, but it is not self-evident to everyone, even though it should be.
You underestimate your fellow Baha'i'ists, Tb. Look again at this statement:
“Because Baha'is interpret the Bible differently they come up with different beliefs"
Now this is surely an obvious Baha’i belief. If it is not, can you please explain why not. It seems to me that this is exactly the point on which your argument rests. You DO interpret the Bible differently, don’t you?
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
No, what they think is that the Bible can have only one meaning, what they believe it means.

But you’re not one of those who, in your words, think is that the Bible can have only one meaning, what they believe it means. No, of course you’re not. LOL!
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
I don’t know what every verse means but I know what some verses do not mean, because I know what happened after the Bible was written.
You know? You’ll be able to show those 2 proofs in that case…

Who gave you authority to interpret that Bible correctly?
Absolutely no one. Like you, I don’t interpret the entire Bible correctly. But as I read, everything gradually ties together (if it is not snatched out of its context or read with a misunderstanding of genre.)
I find that the Holy Spirit, third Person of the Trinity illuminates Scripture for me. He is the Light of understanding, given when I am ready.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
So the hundred-dollar question is why you believe you know what the Bible means. I have been asking the same question of Christians for eight years and still no answer has been forthcoming.
Wait no longer, Tb! I don't know what every part of Scripture means.
See my last post.
(Your problem is the huge number of assumptions you keep making).
Some or all of them have to be wrong about the correct meaning, the meaning God intended.
The correct meaning? So which 'meaning' would you say is the correct one, Tb?
Christians say it is the Holy Spirit guiding them, so why does the Holy Spirit guide them in different directions?
Does a good teacher treat her/his pupils in exactly the same way?
It is only ego that makes people believe they know what the Bible means better than other people know, it is not the Holy Spiirt.
In that case you must do something about that ego of yours.;)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You underestimate your fellow Baha'i'ists, Tb. Look again at this statement:
“Because Baha'is interpret the Bible differently they come up with different beliefs"
Now this is surely an obvious Baha’i belief. If it is not, can you please explain why not. It seems to me that this is exactly the point on which your argument rests. You DO interpret the Bible differently, don’t you?
Everyone interprets the Bible differently because no two people think alike.
Christians interpret the Bible differently from each other and that is one reason there are so many different denominations of Christianity.
Baha'is also interpret the Bible differently from each other because Baha'is come from different backgrounds.

Since Christians have some common beliefs they agree on the meanings of certain verses.
Since Baha'is have certain common beliefs we agree in the meanings of some verses.
Bahais would agree with Christians on the meanings of some verses but not others.

Since Christians have some common beliefs they believe certain verses mean what they already believe.
Since Baha'is have some common beliefs they believe certain verses mean what we already believe.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
But you’re not one of those who, in your words, think is that the Bible can have only one meaning, what they believe it means. No, of course you’re not. LOL!
Sometimes verses have one meaning and sometimes they can mean many different things. It depends upon the verse. I believe that as God's Representative among men, Baha'u'llah knew the correct meaning so what I believe the Bible means is derived from what He and His appointed interpreters wrote. I can also know what the Bible does not mean from knowing who Baha'u'llah was and knowing what He wrote in His Writings that has nothing to do with the Bible.

“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted. They who are its appointed interpreters, they whose hearts are the repositories of its secrets, are, however, the only ones who can comprehend its manifold wisdom. Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead, though to outward seeming he may walk and converse with his neighbors, and share with them their food and their drink.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 175-176
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You know? You’ll be able to show those 2 proofs in that case…
I know what I know but I am not trying to prove anything to others because that is not a job that God gave me to do.

"I know what some verses do not mean, because I know what happened after the Bible was written."
What I meant by that is that I know that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ and the Messiah.
Anyone is free to research Baha'u'llah for themselves and choose to believe His claims or not.
Absolutely no one. Like you, I don’t interpret the entire Bible correctly. But as I read, everything gradually ties together (if it is not snatched out of its context or read with a misunderstanding of genre.)
I find that the Holy Spirit, third Person of the Trinity illuminates Scripture for me. He is the Light of understanding, given when I am ready.
You are free to believe whatever you want to about the Holy Spirit illuminating you but that is not a belief I hold.
I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is a Person that does things, I believe the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God.
That said, I believe we can be guided by the Bounty of God.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Wait no longer, Tb! I don't know what every part of Scripture means.
See my last post.
(Your problem is the huge number of assumptions you keep making).
"So the hundred-dollar question is why you believe you know what the Bible means."
I did not mean that you think you know what 'every part' of the Bible means, but you believe you know what certain verses mean.
The correct meaning? So which 'meaning' would you say is the correct one, Tb?
The correct meaning is the meaning that God intended but as I said before there can be more than one correct meaning.
Does a good teacher treat her/his pupils in exactly the same way?
How is that relevant?
In that case you must do something about that ego of yours.;)
I think you are the one who needs to do something about that.
You are the one who insisted you know what John 14:6 means, over and over and over again.

I do not believe I know what the Bible means 'better than anyone else', but I know what it cannot mean because of what Baha'u'lalh wrote and did. That is not my ego since it does not come from ME.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It's My Birthday!
I know what I know but I am not trying to prove anything to others because that is not a job that God gave me to do.
If you try to convince someone of your faith anyway, that is not allowed here. But I think if the rules of a forum allows it, we should give evidences of our faith. Of course we can't convince or prove it to anyone of it, there are spiritual prerequisites for them to believe.
 
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