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Featured Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SeekingAllTruth, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Fine, you may believe that God is that. How do you handle the failures of the Bible?
     
  2. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was referring to the transfiguration when Moses and Elijah appeared. The ones who would witness this are said to not taste death until they see what was shown them.

    Peter writes:

    2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
    2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    This all happened BEFORE Jesus was raised from the dead! It was therefore only a prophetic vision.

    Jesus can't come in his kingdom with all his holy saints until all those are like Moses and Elijah. They have to be resurrected from the dead (like Moses) or translated from among the living (like Elijah).
     
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Right, more verses from the Bible that tell us that it is full of nonsense.

    So once again how do you deal with the failures of the Bible? Those various verses tell us that the Bible fails again and again. There would be no need of them if it was the "word of God".
     
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  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    If you were a student of the Bible you would have known that II Peter was not written by Peter.

    Most biblical scholars have concluded Peter is not the author, considering the epistle pseudepigraphical.[1][2] Reasons for this include its linguistic differences from 1 Peter, its apparent use of Jude, possible allusions to 2nd-century gnosticism, encouragement in the wake of a delayed parousia, and weak external support.[4]

    Second Epistle of Peter - Wikipedia).
     
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  5. Primordial Light

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    God said, "I will choose your delusions" - Isaiah 66:4.
    The failures only exist in your own misinterpretations and translations of it. You don't see what you don't want to see.

    The Bible does not fail, unenlightend minds fail to apprehend it's transcendental mastery.

    The son quickens whom HE WILLS - John 5:21
     
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  6. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    Instead of saying "Peter writes" I should have said "God said".
     
  7. Primordial Light

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    Correct.
    Either way, the Holy Spirit writes ALL that is written, "who works ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL" - Eph 1:11.

    The Lord does not cast his pearls before swine, which is why even Bible translations have been so botched up, you must be seeking Truth by the Spirit, then the Spirit will illuminate your mind.
     
  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    So now you are claiming that God is immoral. I don't see how that helps you.

    And no, I am not the one guilty of misinterpretation. The Bible fails again and again. If a person does not realize this he or she cannot claim to be a student of the Bible. The question is can it work even with all of its failures.
     
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  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Nope, no reason to believe that either. In fact that appears to be a violation of the Second Commandment. The Bible was written by man. Now God may be incompetent. But why make that even more obvious than need be?
     
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    In other words instead of looking for the truth you are looking for excuses to believe. The problem is that a literal approach to the Bible ends up refuting God.
     
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  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    FWIW, trying to explain anything to someone whose mind is already set is often a complete waste of time.
    But in all the instances you have mentioned, there is a Biblical explanation.

    Let's see....

    Paul had no idea when Christ would return...God told no one, not even Jesus. (Matthew 24:36)
    He knew like all the other apostles that Jesus promised to return, but they did not know when. (John 14:1-3)

    Again you only have a very limited view of his words.
    When Jesus made that promise, it says in Matthew 17:1-2..."Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and his brother John along and led them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them; his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light."

    This was the fulfillment of that promise. They saw the King of God's Kingdom in all his glory.

    He did not say "until you see me return" he said that they would see him "coming in his Kingdom" and the transfiguration was exactly that. Peter James and John were privileged to see it. They were the "some of you" that Jesus spoke of.

    What "generation" was he speaking about? The generation of the elect...those chosen for rulership and priestly roles in the Kingdom. (Revelation 20:6) Members of that 'generation' would continue to be chosen right up to the "time of the end" because of the apostasy that was foretold for Christianity. When that apostasy was in full swing, then the "wheat" would be overtaken by the "weeds" of counterfeit Christianity until the time of the end, when it was near the harvest time. Only then when true Christianity was re-established, would the full complement be complete. This is when the words of Paul would be fulfilled. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)

    Jesus "coming" as judge of all the earth is a completely separate event to his "parousia". He promised his disciples that he would be "with" them right up until the end of the present world system of things. (Matthew 28:18-20)
    There would still be some of that "generation" still left on earth who would be taken up instantaneously at that time.

    If you read Matthew 24, and the prophesy that Jesus gave his apostles concerning the time of the end, you will see a much mistranslated word. In many Bibles it reads..."Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (ASV)

    In the Greek, it does not use the word "coming" but "presence" (parousia) which conveys very different circumstances. If I tell you that I am "present" at an event, that does not mean that I am "coming"...it means that I am already here.

    So the "presence" of Jesus Christ as King would need a "sign" to indicate that it was already happening. Jesus gave this composite sign which we have been witnessing under our noses for the last 100 years, beginning with the Great War and continuing to gain momentum to our day. We are deep into "the time of the end".

    Not finishing the work of completing all the towns was an indication of how big the assignment was of "preaching the good news of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth". (Matthew 24:14) Certainly not a job for single individuals, but the work of a well directed and organized global body.

    I have no need to consult your link.....all I need to know is right there in the Bible....plain as the nose on your face if you know what you're looking at...which apparently many people don't. We will just let Jesus show you that he is already here...and has been for quite some time.....his 'presence' was not to be a time of peace and love....just the opposite as his opposers pull out all the stops to prop up their failed system.
     
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  12. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    It's not a violation of the second commandment.
    Can you really blame a guy for having hope in the resurrection of the dead to eternal life?
    It's more than the no hope Darwin offers.
     
  13. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Correct - finally someone else on here that understands this. The Kingdom came on the day of Pentecost. The Kingdom is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Romans 14:17

    So there were many standing there that did see his kingdom come with power.
     
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  14. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    3 of Jesus' apostles got a free pass to live for 2000 years or however long it would take for Him to come again. So then also, the generation did not pass away because they were still alive.
     
  15. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I think if you want to find a reason to disbelieve so much then it's easy but if you want to believe that's easy also.

    In 1 Thess 4:16-17 Paul saying "we" just means those of the true church who are still alive when it does happen. He isn't necessarily saying he'll be alive then but if he is alive then. So not a failed prophecy. Not even close actually.
    As for Jesus saying some wouldn't taste death until they see him return that technically was fulfilled if we believe that John is the same one who saw the book of Revelation or it could be seen in other visions. So your claim it's a "failed prophecy" is just grasping at straws. For example in Numbers 27:12 it is easy to understand that just because Moses went on a high mountain that doesn't mean he would see all of Canaan land unaided. That means God had to show Moses the whole land in a vision or by some other supernatural means. So to "see" the son of man coming in his kingdom is the same.
    As for Matthew 24:25-34 "this generation" speaking of the same generation that sees the sign of the fig tree putting forth it's leaves.
    As for Matthew 10:23 ... we haven't necessarily seen that happen yet.
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    With all due respect, these are not "failed prophecies" because they are not referring to the same man Jesus returning in the flesh. The Lord himself and the Son of Man coming in the clouds are not referring to Jesus, they are referring to the return of the Christ Spirit in another man, who I believe was Baha'u'llah.

    The only failure was on the part of Christians who did not recognize Christ with His New Name and body.

    Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
     
  17. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Our shame was taken to the cross. :)
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You need to get it back. Too many Christians have the very mistaken idea that they can do no wrong.
     
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  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Actually it appears to be. You are making a false idol of the Bible.

    And believing just because you want to believe almost guarantees a mistaken belief.
     
  20. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Oddly enough, cOLTER that shows up as rationalization # 4 in the link that I provided.
     
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