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Jesus drank alcohol

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Merlin, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    That is if we accept the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures as accurate, which I, personally, do not.
     
  2. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Are you sure he wasn't just drinking that because they didn't have kool-aid back then?
     
  3. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    What is your version?
     
  4. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    I generally read the King James Version in English, but I also study the scriptures in the original Greek and Hebrew. I recognize that there are errors in transcription in all the available versions, so I try not to hang my faith on interpretation.
     
  5. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    Perhaps you will find the following links helpful:

    I understand that you will probably not be able to read all of these. But a quick glance at each could be very helpful.
     
  6. Kowalski

    Kowalski Active Member

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    Well, if Jesus liked a drink, what's wrong with that ? Let the guy party.

    cheers

    K
     
  7. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    I looked over those links and I thought two things. First off, the articles are totally honest in recognizing that the Bible speaks of alcoholic and non-alcoholic wine, and even mentions that only one passage in the entire Bible speaks in a light that can even be liberally interpreted as looking favorably on drinking alcoholic wine, and that's Proverbs 31:4-6, where it mentions giving wine to people suffering pain in death. It seems this testifies of the complete accuracy of my original post on the use of the word in the Bible.

    The other thing I noticed was that the underlying theme here was that of justifying the moderate consumption of alcohol. My thought is this: why would someone dedicate such a long amount of time to proving that it is OK to have one beer every now and then? I've never been so addicted to something that I fought tooth and nail for the right to sip at that thing.

    My contention has always been thus: People drink to get drunk. Moderate drinking serves no purpose whatsoever. Some will say that they like the taste of it. No one likes the taste of alcohol unless they've been drinking it for a long time. I know; I miss the taste of it. When you grow to crave the taste of such a disgusting substance it has a name: addiction. Drinking alcohol has no conceivable purpose that can be at all considered righteous.
     
  8. Fatmop

    Fatmop Active Member

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    Would you say I'm addicted to pizza?

    Even drinking in moderation can relax a person. There's a purpose, right there. Drinking is also something to do with your friends - no one need have enough that they can't drive (though some friends definitely do). Not all people "drink to get drunk."
     
  9. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Dan - where did you find all this information?
     
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  10. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    A lot of it is just from looking at the various words translated "wine" in the Old Testament and then looking into what they denote. I believe the idea to study it was from the Old Testament Institute manual.

    The facts on anti-oxydants come from a study I did years ago. I was a wine host at a restaurant and spent about a year steadily researching everything I could about wine. This was before I joined the church.
     
  11. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    You could be. Go watch the movie "Supersize Me" and they'll fill you in on addiction.

    A Christian shouldn't rely on alcohol to calm nerves. It means you're ingesting a substance to change your state of mind. Whether to get seriously drunk or to take the edge off of your day is a matter of degrees and nothing more. The Lord is yay and nay, there is no grey area for Him. My friends and I don't need to change our state of mind to enjoy each other's company.
     
  12. lofitribe

    lofitribe New Member

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    Wine is good for you, drink it in moderation. Balance folks, balance.
     
  13. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    Grapes are better for you. You can have as many as you want.
     
  14. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    The point of this whole thread is that you should not claim to be better than Jesus. If he drank alcoholic wine, why is it wrong for you to do the same?
     
  15. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    How sad! Everybody you know who drinks alcohol, only drinks it to get drunk. You must have known some sad people.

    There are millions of people who enjoy a glass of wine with their dinner. Millions of people for whom it would be complete anathema to get drunk. In France it is a way of life. People have a single glass of wine with lunch and dinner all of their lives. Indeed, why would they not.

    Are you telling me that Jesus and the disciples only drank alcoholic wine to get drunk? Or are they the exceptions?
     
  16. Kowalski

    Kowalski Active Member

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    I don't what he's saying except maybe that J and guys were often drunk and were falling about the place. There are many references in Ancient Egyptian Literature of drunkeness, and indeed at the some of the Great Festivals, such as that of Hathor, drunkeness and sexual promiscuity were encouraged.

    You should also bear in mind that Wine of the day, was nothing like the wine of today.

    Cheers

    K
     
  17. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    I also said that people who drink 'cause they like the taste have been doing it for a very long time. They are used to the taste because they spent plenty of time forcing themselves to get used to it. I lived in Bavaria, I know exactly what the social attitude towards alcohol is, and I know that parents start their children young on the beer. The kids hate it at first, invariably, but they keep drinking because it is expected of them. Every morning we would have breakfast in the front yard and I would have a big pint of room temperature beer with my bread, my cheese and my "liver-cheese". Yuck (not the beer, but the liver-cheese). As teenagers the drunkeness starts becoming a bigger part of social drinking. As an adult they move past getting drunk, but by now are so addicted that it's always a struggle to leave it behind should the decision be made to do so. I've seen all this happen a million times, and it happened to me, so please don't lecture me about why people drink. Getting drunk is always a part of one's motivation at some point.

    Well, my statement was not that people have been drinking to get drunk since the dawn of time, it was that people who do it now do it for those two reasons (the drunkeness usually coming before the other). I also stated that in Jesus' time they drank so the alcohol would kill dangerous bacteria. I also stated that it cannot be positively ascertained as to what kindof wine Jesus drank. I also stated that the Old Testament is clear on what kind of wine was appropriate and what kind was not. Jesus would have followed that strictly.

    Please refrain from twisting my arguments around to fit into your criticisms. You think inside a very small box. Please don't try to drag me in their with you.
     
  18. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    I do nto claim to be better than Jesus. You do not read what I post. You state that he drank alcoholic wine like you actually have some idea whether he did or not. You have no such idea because you have done no investigation. You will do no investigation and you will respect no investigation that disproves the theory that you arbitrarily accepted without any evidence or support. It cannot be proven or even assumed that Jesus drank alcoholic wine, and my research should prove sufficient to anyone with at least one objective thought clanking around in their head.
     
  19. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    in my old church we had red wine for communion, in my new church we have red grape juice

    quite frankly, im more concerned with my relationship with jesus than if my drink is alcoholic or not :)

    yes it is possible that jesus drank wine, maybe he didn't, i do not know beyond a doubt, but i do not think jesus condemns me for drinking alcohol, except for when i drink too much as a form of excapism..... but ive not done that much over the last year:bounce

    a few of my friends rate a "good night out" on how much they drank before they passed out, this is not my idea of a good night out any more, although im still up for a few drinks. i used to be addicted to alcohol, but now i am not - i can go periods of tiem without drinking any alcoholic drinks at all, im very proud of my achievement, but anyway, iu believe the topic at hand is "should be have wine or fruit juice for communion?"

    i believe communion to be purely about you taking time out to remember that jesus lived, died, and rose again, and praising him for his sacrifice, i don't see the importance of it having to be wine

    C_P
     
  20. may

    may Well-Known Member

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