1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus drank alcohol

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Merlin, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    Why do some Christian groups ban drinking wine, even to celebrate the last supper? If wine was good enough for Jesus, why should we settle for fruit juice?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    8,761
    Ratings:
    +604
    Well, we have to look at why Jesus drank wine, and what wine is. Dan in a different thread talked about the translation of the word wine. Perhaps he will do that again. So I will look at why Jesus would have drank alcoholic wine.

    Back in that day, people didn't have refigerators. This made preservation of drinks hard. I don't know what all kind of drinks they had back then, but one of the only ways they could preserve a grape beverage was by turning it into wine. Today, we don't have that problem (at least not in this country). LDS have the word of wisdom which tells people not to drink alcohol. I don't think this would be considred a sin if alcohol was the only thing that could be preserved, and therefor drinken. Another reason for drinking wine was to kill bacteria that could be in the food you ate. Once again, not much of a problem around here. Most of our food is pretty darned clean, so there is no reason to wash down your food with something to kill the bacteria. If I were to eat something that was bad, though, and I then drank some alcohol, I don't beleive it would be a sin against the Word of Wisdom, either. Taken in context, the only reason they drank wine was because that was one of the few things that would keep for any length of time, and it killed all the bacteria they were injesting. We can keep things other than wine, now, and we don't go eating bacteria with our food, so why drink? Alcohol is so bad for you that if you don't need it, don't drink it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,464
    Ratings:
    +96
    Can you tell me the alcoholic content of that wine?
     
  4. BUDDY

    BUDDY User of Aspercreme

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,027
    Ratings:
    +485
    I am pretty sure that in the occation in which Jesus turned water into wine, it was non-alcoholic wine that was made by him. I say this for two reasons:

    1) The reference is for "New Wine" which means new from the grape, which would not have had time to ferment, and therefore not contain alcohol.
    2) If the wine created was alcoholic, it would have been equivalent to a couple of kegs of alcoholic substance, and would be liked to having a massive keg party, and allow everyone to be drunk. I find it hard to believe that the Lord would on one hand instruct us to, "not be drunk with wine", and at the same time create enough one to do exactly that to everyone at the wedding feast.

    Peace.:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    8,761
    Ratings:
    +604
    and the fact that they had drinken (what the heck is the past participle of to drink?) so much of the wine before hand, that the fact they weren't all passed out meant that it wan't alcoholic either.
     
  6. CaptainXeroid

    CaptainXeroid Following Christ

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    4,778
    Ratings:
    +751
    Since the purpose of communion is to remember Jesus' sacrifice, the drink we choose to symbolize the Last Supper really isn't relevant is it?

    Our church switched from wine to grape juice 30 years ago when there were some members who were recovering alcholics.
     
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    72,378
    Ratings:
    +28,259
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    I have asked the very same question to many, many pastors, both in actual conversation and via email, and it is always been answered by "I don't know" or "I'll look into it" or the question has been ignored entirely.
    Aqualung is the first person that I've seen that has come up with an answer. Not quite the answer I was expecting, but it is still an answer. Actually, I never expected anyone would come up with any answer.
    And by the way, a glass of red wine a night has been shown to have good effects for your cardiovascular health. And the past tense of drink is either drunk or drank. In Indiana it would be "you drunk the liquid", but Indiana common language is far from the proper language.
     
  8. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    3,271
    Ratings:
    +460
    Perhap they were just well behaved whilst drinking. Or maybe jesus kept a real smooth atmosphere over his parties. An underatted miracle not doubt, but perhaps it could count.
     
  9. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    What do you think it was?
     
  10. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    It was also described as 'the best wine they had that day'. If you know wine, That would not be said of the juice straight from the press.
     
  11. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    Where does this concept of non-alcoholic wine come from? Non-wine drinkers I would guess. In those days most people including children drank alcoholic wine and beer for safety reasons. Beer was the staple drink of the UK until 150 years ago.

    There is no doubt it would be alcoholic. Otherwise it would not be called wine. Or are you suggesting no one drank alcohol in those days? Or just that Jesus did not.
     
  12. Malus 12:9

    Malus 12:9 Temporarily Deactive.

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,672
    Ratings:
    +99
    The Bible makes it clear that Jesus drank wine (Matthew 15:11;) and approved of its moderate consumption (Matthew 15:11). On the other hand, he was critical of drunkenness (Luke 21:34, 12:42; Matthew 24:45-50).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    yes i agree that Jesus did drink acholic wine ,and it is also ok for christians to drink it in moderation

    its interesting that self-righteous religious leaders in Jesus’ day criticized him(Jesus) for occasionally drinking wine

    (Luke 7:33, 34 remember that it was said of john the baptist that he would drink no wine or strong drink at all , so jesus did drink it, that was the point of contrast mentioned here in this scripture

     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    I have read your reply again, and I would guess from it that you do not drink wine. 'New wine' does not mean fruit juice. New wine is a common expression within the wine trade for young wine. The liquor is not called wine until it has been through the fermentation process.
     
  15. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    So why do some Christian groups forbid it?

    If it was good enough for Jesus, why is it not good enough for we mere mortals?
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    because they make their own rules not based on the bible ..sorry i am butting in i am gone now
     
  17. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    fair enough, it just seems strange to copy a particular event in the Bible, but modify it. Maybe people in your circumstances should move to the continental view. They let the priest drink the wine, and they just share the bread.
     
  18. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    Doesn't every sub-sect of Christianity do that? But presumably your own group is the exception to that.

    Please feel free to butt in whenever you wish
     
  19. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    i am not pointing to any one group its just that the scriptures do not say acholic drinks are wrong , but the bible does tell us that drunkeness is wrong there is a big differance,
    "Wine is a ridiculer, intoxicating liquor is boisterous, and everyone going astray by it is not wise."—PROVERBS 20:1 so its the going astray by it that is wrong but on the other hand the bible tells us that it is good

    (Ecclesiastes 9:7) Go, eat your food with rejoicing and drink your wine with a good heart, because already the [true] God has found pleasure in your works

    (Psalm 104:15) And wine that makes the heart of mortal man rejoice, To make the face shine with oil, And bread that sustains the very heart of mortal man.....so its all to to with moderation

     
  20. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    Not all Christian accept that, so you cannot be so definite as you appear
     
Loading...