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Jesus = Dionysus Mythology

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
A post was placed where a member linked the following:
Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.
Dionysus: Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days
I answered with limited time.
  • Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
  • Wrong, there is no date on the birth of Dionysus! he was son of Zeus who impregnated a human woman and when she died, Zeus sewed Dionysus in his thigh where he grew up and was "born" as a god. There is not a single day or date when Dionisys was born in any mythological writing. The solar solistes is anyway not on Dec 25. but on 21 and 22 Dec. Therefore, to say his mother was a virgin is utter deception.
  • He is the son of the heavenly Father.
  • If you call YHWH the heavenly Father, it might be true, but Zeus was never called the Heavenly Father. At best he was called the God of the Sky! Furthermore, he was the child of Chronos and Reah, one of many Greek gods. To correlate Zeus with the Father of the Bible would have seen you getting killed in Greece and Rome 2 000 years ago. AND HE WAS ONE OF THE 12 GODS IN OLYMPUS!
  • As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
  • This is a total lie! he was raised by Rain nymphs in the wild bushes. He also had an older sister born from Chronos and Demeter. Both were worshipped as Greek gods.
  • Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
  • Not True, he was a God of wine, dance and sexual perversion. He was represented as a god of chaos and the protector of misfits.
  • He was the God of the Wine, and turned water into wine.
  • Also a lie. he never turned water into wine, he MADE wine and taught mankind to make it too.
  • Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an ***.
  • Also not true. He entered 2 places in mythology. GREECE, AND NO MENTION ON WHAT HE RODE, AND OLYMPUS, ALSO NO REFERENCE
  • He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
  • Bull s#$%. He was torn apart by the titans and his body strewn on the earth. His heart was used to build him up again. His festivals would include drinking, feasting and orgies!
  • The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
  • Also a lie! He went to save his mother, a goddess too, from the grip of the god of the underworld. He fasioned a phallus, fought hell dogs etc. It has sweet nothing to do with Jesus who died on the cross and was dead for 3 days. Also, no time or day count of Dionysus' period in Hades is mentioned. Perhaps in writings from 300 AD, but not in ancient myths.
  • Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
  • Also not true. No date, and he did not asscend into heaven, he went to mount Olympus to be with 12 other gods. Big difference, a mouintain and heaven.
  • Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
  • And God of wine, dance and sexual perversion. He was represented as a god of chaos and the protector of misfits. The only "Liberation" he did was for the perverted during sex orgies
  • Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
  • This is a blatant lie! never was he called "Only Begotten Son, he had 138 siblings, of which at least 76 boys!"
  • "King of Kings," Also not true, he was a lesser god, Zeus was king.
  • "God of Gods," Also a lie, He was a lesser God!
  • "Sin Bearer," Nope, he was the sin giver and reason for drunkedness and perversion.
  • "Redeemer," yes, when he freed man and women in orgies from guilt!
  • "Anointed One" This was never his title at all.
  • "Alpha and Omega."He was one of 12 gods, a child of two other gods, how the heck can he be the Alpha and Omegs when Zeus still had sons after him?
  • His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
  • Bull s%^& again! Dionysus was never crucified! He was raised in the bushes by nymphs and this is where he recived the name.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
I wonder why anyone would take Achariah S's mystery concoctions, who by the way was proven as a huge liar by historians on ancient Mythology, and post it without even checking the facts.
It is due to such misinformation, whom anyone could actually smell a mile away was somehow not true, that people think the Bible is a book of myths, and Jesus nevere existed.

This rubbish was all made up by Gerald Massey by him seeking spirits to guide him to write his publications on the Christ myths and he did his best to twist the Egyptian Mythology, followed by the Greek and Roman to create an appearance that the Jesus History was actually only a myth and that Jesus never existed.
Tom Harpur and Robbert Price followed up on his work, and influenced Murdock, AKA Achariah S to continue with her Christ Myth stories.
Not one of these people could answer countless historians on their claims, and some of them even challenced AchariahS to produce any documents to prove these claims.
Well, she died a few years ago without any support for her claims.

I would love anyone on this forum to see if they can find any relation to this Mythologies, and Jesus so I can investigate.
And, I would love to hear from others what they think of the above accusation that Jesus never existed, and was only a "concoction made up by Christians with the use of Egypt, Greek and Roman Mythology".
 
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Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Christians do "this" as well, stating that Brahman refers to Abraham, or equating Shiva's trident "trishula" with the Christian cross, for example.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
What about Jesus and Dionysus?
What the mythicists do is to compare Jesus to the mythological Bacchus, or Dionysus and to claim Jesus never lived but is a made up story where people took mythology, and applied it to Christ.
Gerald Massey started this with no evidence, and today it is one huge movement used by Muslims, as well as atheists to somehow say Jesus is a myth.
 
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SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Christians do "this" as well, stating that Brahman refers to Abraham, or equating Shiva's trident "trishula" with the Christian cross, for example.
Well, lets put it this way!
  • I do not know of a single Christian who say Brahman is Abraham.
  • or any Christian that claim Shiva's trident is the Cross of Christ.
Please supply me with references where any Christian does claim such things.
I am sure Christians will never make any such a claim.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
The late psychologist Carl Jung had the theory he called the archetypes of the collective unconscious. In modern terms, the archetypes are similar to the personality firmware, associated with the DNA based operating system of the human brain.

Since we all share human nature; human species, archetype or firmware expressions will be similar in all humans, independent of culture. Jung proved this thesis by finding common mythology, symbols and dreams in people and cultures where there is no proof of any interaction. For example, the Aborigine, which settled Australia starting about 50,000 years ago have a world wide flood mythology. They developed this independent of Noah. It symbolized a major update in the brain's operating system.

Human nature makes all humans have things in common, in terms of the natural operating system of the brain. These things in common causes the human imagination to spontaneously create and project similar types. The superficial dressing for the types, will be influenced by circumstances of one's culture, but the underlying types are the same in all humans. It is not uncommon for different mythologies to appear to overlap. This is true if both are expressing fundamental types.

The best projections from the types reflect the operating system and the personalty firmware. If these are true to their origins, they have the ability to push the buttons of the operation system in others, and therefore perpetuate and grow in popularity. The symbolism of Jesus resonates, since it came from the inner gods; firmware, and allows these gods to be felt by others.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
The late psychologist Carl Jung had the theory he called the archetypes of the collective unconscious. In modern terms, the archetypes are similar to the personality firmware, associated with the DNA based operating system of the human brain.

Since we all share human nature; human species, archetype or firmware expressions will be similar in all humans, independent of culture. Jung proved this thesis by finding common mythology, symbols and dreams in people and cultures where there is no proof of any interaction. For example, the Aborigine, which settled Australia starting about 50,000 years ago have a world wide flood mythology. They developed this independent of Noah. It symbolized a major update in the brain's operating system.

Human nature makes all humans have things in common, in terms of the natural operating system of the brain. These things in common causes the human imagination to spontaneously create and project similar types. The superficial dressing for the types, will be influenced by circumstances of one's culture, but the underlying types are the same in all humans. It is not uncommon for different mythologies to appear to overlap. This is true if both are expressing fundamental types.

The best projections from the types reflect the operating system and the personalty firmware. If these are true to their origins, they have the ability to push the buttons of the operation system in others, and therefore perpetuate and grow in popularity. The symbolism of Jesus resonates, since it came from the inner gods; firmware, and allows these gods to be felt by others.
And the above will all make sense if one belief in evolution and aborigini's existing 50 000 years ago.
However, if one knows we all descended from Noah, everything makes logical sense that we were interconnected less than 4500 years ago.
This was what researchers also found, and the same with the Grimm brothers,
All languages developed from one single language.
Sounds familiar, doesnt it?
Anyhow, There is zero evidence that there was any life on earth 6 000 years ago.
Only incorrect interperatations of C14 tests, which incidently also shows that the oldest charcoal burned by man dates from 4500 years ago.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
As bad as some Christ myth theories are it does not discount the fact that it is not known whether or not the NT writers had a particular itinerant preacher in mind when they set pen to paper. The NT is completely concerned with theology and subject to interpretation which is why so many differences of opinion occur as regards to an historical Jesus or a mythical Jesus.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
I wonder why anyone would take Achariah S's mystery concoctions, who by the way was proven as a huge liar by historians on ancient Mythology, and post it without even checking the facts.
It is due to such misinformation, whom anyone could actually smell a mile away was somehow not true, that people think the Bible is a book of myths, and Jesus nevere existed.

This rubbish was all made up by Gerald Massey by him seeking spirits to guide him to write his publications on the Christ myths and he did his best to twist the Egyptian Mythology, followed by the Greek and Roman to create an appearance that the Jesus History was actually only a myth and that Jesus never existed.
Tom Harpur and Robbert Price followed up on his work, and influenced Murdock, AKA Achariah S to continue with her Christ Myth stories.
Not one of these people could answer countless historians on their claims, and some of them even challenced AchariahS to produce any documents to prove these claims.
Well, she died a few years ago without any support for her claims.

I would love anyone on this forum to see if they can find any relation to this Mythologies, and Jesus so I can investigate.
And, I would love to hear from others what they think of the above accusation that Jesus never existed, and was only a "concoction made up by Christians with the use of Egypt, Greek and Roman Mythology".


Yes a lot of those authors were writing crank. It is known that the majority of the concepts in the OT came from the Persian period and were adapted from Zoroastrianism:

Zoroastrianism - Wikipedia
"Historical features of Zoroastrianism, such as messianism, judgment after death, heaven and hell, and free will may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Greek philosophy,[7] Christianity, Islam,[8] the Bahá'í Faith, and Buddhism.[9]"

Christian mythology - Wikipedia
"Some scholars believe that many elements of Christian mythology, particularly its linear portrayal of time, originated with the Persian religion of Zoroastrianism.[29] Mary Boyce, an authority on Zoroastrianism, writes:

Zoroaster was thus the first to teach the doctrines of an individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, the future resurrection of the body, the general Last Judgment, and life everlasting for the reunited soul and body. These doctrines were to become familiar articles of faith to much of mankind, through borrowings by Judaism, Christianity and Islam."
Mary Boyce was a highly decorated scholar who lived in Iran for years to study the religion as it is today.

Here Prof Fransesca Stravrokopulu touches on the fact that during the Persian invasion Judaism adopted much of the Persian concepts into the OT
around 4:00


But mystery religions often had dying/rising savior figures who went through a passion, used baptism and forgiveness of sins and many similar concepts. The OT wrote prophecies that they were going to get their own savior based on religions in the region.

Here PhD Carrier goes over all the features of mystery religions and gives original source details about 6 specific dying/rising demi-gods, son or daughter of the main God and who were known to pre-date Jesus:

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13890

Carrier also challenged Murdock on many of her assumptions. Although Carrier makes a much better case that Christianity is a Jewish mystery religion, is an actual peer-reviewed historian and always gives sources he says Murdock often made leaps of logic.

The mythicist debate is unimportant. What other historians like Bart Ehrman believe is Jesus was a teacher of Judaism who was later mythicized into a demi-god. That is the general consensus of the PhD historicity field now.
Obviously the apologetics scholars disagree but they are not historians.

The actual facts about Dionysis:

Dionysus (also popularly known as Bacchus) had many different tales told of him, just as Osiris did. But in one popularly known, he was killed by being torn apart as a baby (Justin Martyr, Apology 1.21; Plutarch, On Isis and Osiris 35; Diodorus, Library of History 5.75.4 and 3.62.6); he was then resurrected by a human woman (Semele) conceiving a new body for him in her womb after drinking a magic slushy made from bits of his corpse (Hyginus, Fabulae 167). This is a literal resurrection again, just by an elaborate mechanism. The god definitely dies, and then returns to life by acquiring the same kind of body he once had, assembled and “regrown” from parts of his old one. In this version of his myth, he is a full god (son of Zeus and Persephone) but still mortal (capable of being killed by dismemberment, like a vampire); he then is “reborn” a demigod (from the womb of a fully mortal human woman). He was the savior god central to the Bacchic mysteries, one of the most widely known and celebrated in the Western world at that time. Those baptized into his cult received eternal life in paradise; and just like Christians (1 Corinthians 15:29), Dionysians could even baptize themselves on behalf of deceased loved ones, and thus rescue those already dead.


But as Carrier points myths that influence each other are not going to be exact copies this is what religious syncretism is, blending of stories but with new directions added by each culture. Jesus fits exactly what a Jewish version would look like.


"Every dying-and-rising god is different. Every death is different. Every resurrection is different. All irrelevant. The commonality is that there is a death and a resurrection. Everything else is a mixture of syncretized ideas from the borrowing and borrowed cultures, to produce a new and unique god and myth."
 
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The Anointed

Well-Known Member
According to Greek mythology, Zeus was the sixth child born to Time (Kronos) and Space (Rhea), Time was his father and Space his mother. Zeus is the Godhead, the most high that was created on the sixth day, or the sixth period of universal activity, the sixth generation of the universe, Zeus, the sixth child born to Time and Space is called the father of Gods and men, the most high and powerful among mortals, whom all others obey.

His five siblings, Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades, and Poseidon were swallowed by their father ’Time’ immediately after they were born. The five universal bodies, who were born to Time and Space prior to the sixth universal child, did not develop a mind, that is to say, a spiritual godhead to the universal body in which they were developing.

When Zeus was born, his mother ’Space’ hid him in a cave, a tunnel (A worm hole) and gave to her partner ‘Time,’ a stone wrapped in swaddling cloth, which he swallowed. The stone swallowed by Time was none other than the philosopher’s stone, the concealed stone of many colours, the single stone with seven facets, the mystic seed of transcendental life, which should invade, tinge, and wholly transmute, the imperfect self into spiritual gold.

The son of Zeus and his sister wife Demeter, is Dionysus who is equated with Osiris, The Platonists who believed the Greek myths called Dionysus, the mind within us, our master, our indwelling ruler.”

Demeter was the sister wife of Zeus and mother of Dionysus [The first born son of Zeus and the successor to the throne of the spiritual godhead to the human race] whose body was torn to pieces by the Titans, (The baptism of blood) then boiled in water before being roasted in fire; [The baptism of water, followed by the baptism of fire]

When Zeus had grown, it was by a cunning devise of Metis ‘which is divine wisdom,’ that Cronos (Time) was forced to bring up the five children or the previous five universal bodies that he had swallowed before they had developed a Supreme personality of godhead within them, but first of all the seven faceted stone..

Those children who were swallowed by time, were the product of the first five creative days or periods of universal activity, (The first five generations of the universe.). Osiris like Adam was the first man to be mummified and Osiris is the god of the first of the five new made days. Budge—Book of the Dead, p. 627, “O Osiris, son of Nut (Primeval matter), I have given unto thee the Sovereignty of thy father Seb (Time), and the goddess Mut (Space), thy mother, (Lord of Space and Time) who gave birth to the gods, brought you forth as the first born of five gods, and created thy beauties and fashioned thy members.”

Isis, the sister wife to Osiris, was the most popular goddess from the time of Psamtik 1 (663-610 B.C) till the coming of Christianity, her cult appealed to the Greeks and Romans alike and when Egypt came under Roman rule, her cult spread through much of Europe. By the time of Jesus, the chief center of her worship was in Rome. Isis is commonly depicted with Horus the child (Harpocrates) on her lap, and today, it is impossible to distinguish between the late pagan and early Christian figures of the mother and child, it’s almost as though the old Pagan Queen was stripped of her old garments and clothed with the new covering of Christianity.
 
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