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Jesus Christ and Original Sin

Evandr

Stripling Warrior
Jesus Christ was born into the world and clothed in flesh and blood able to feel pain, hunger, joy and heartache...etc. Now, how can one reconcile original sin with a sinless man unless you claim that sexual activity makes the person sinful under the concept of original sin in which case the commandment to be fruitful and replenish the earth is a commandment to commit sin or at very least a commandment to create something sinful.

The whole idea falls in on itself because it is evident that flesh and blood do not have to be the source of sin and thusly judgment. In the grand scheme of things Jesus Christ as a mortal man was akin to Adam and Eve through His mortal mother and thusly one of two conditions exist under the concept of original sin; either Jesus Christ was born into some degree of sin making Him less than perfect, or God is a biased person who pardoned Jesus at the womb; this is not justice because at the point of birth Christ had done nothing in mortality save to act like a baby arms and legs a flying like any other newborn infant. Original sin has some gaping deficiencies leaving any religion who promotes it with the same deficiencies.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
had jesus been truly god incarnate, he could have just appeared with out a need for a mortal mother and purged himself to himself and that would have settled that...
but no, he had to have had a mortal mother because....well... because that is what happened dang it!!!
:thud:
 

thebigpicture

Active Member
had jesus been truly god incarnate, he could have just appeared with out a need for a mortal mother and purged himself to himself and that would have settled that...
but no, he had to have had a mortal mother because....well... because that is what happened dang it!!!
:thud:

(Laughs)! That was funny.
 

idea

Question Everything
had jesus been truly god incarnate, he could have just appeared with out a need for a mortal mother and purged himself to himself and that would have settled that...
but no, he had to have had a mortal mother because....well... because that is what happened dang it!!!
:thud:

He had to be half mortal for the atonement.
 

Evandr

Stripling Warrior
had jesus been truly god incarnate, he could have just appeared with out a need for a mortal mother and purged himself to himself and that would have settled that...
but no, he had to have had a mortal mother because....well... because that is what happened dang it!!!
:thud:
Hey, getting it right is all about doing it right; there was something about perfectly overcoming the flesh while being subject to temptation before Christ was able to atone for sin and that's because....well....because that is the way it needed to be to be part of a perfectly effectual plan.:yes: I trust that our heavenly Father knows what He is doing.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
In the beginning was the spam, and the spam with god, and the spam was god.

Believe in the spam, and the spam will set you free.

Spam spam spam and more spam
 

idea

Question Everything
Jesus Christ was born into the world and clothed in flesh and blood able to feel pain, hunger, joy and heartache...etc. Now, how can one reconcile original sin with a sinless man unless you claim that sexual activity makes the person sinful under the concept of original sin in which case the commandment to be fruitful and replenish the earth is a commandment to commit sin or at very least a commandment to create something sinful.

The whole idea falls in on itself because it is evident that flesh and blood do not have to be the source of sin and thusly judgment. In the grand scheme of things Jesus Christ as a mortal man was akin to Adam and Eve through His mortal mother and thusly one of two conditions exist under the concept of original sin; either Jesus Christ was born into some degree of sin making Him less than perfect, or God is a biased person who pardoned Jesus at the womb; this is not justice because at the point of birth Christ had done nothing in mortality save to act like a baby arms and legs a flying like any other newborn infant. Original sin has some gaping deficiencies leaving any religion who promotes it with the same deficiencies.

Original sin equates to all of us being punished for Adam's transgression, which goes against:
(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 24:16)
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


Interesting take on it though.


is flesh evil?
the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.(New Testament | Matthew 26:41)

We do often have good intentions, but then have trouble executing it due to physical limitations. Certainly our physical bodes are imperfect now, but they are not evil, just weak. I've always thought our physical bodies were the first little bit of matter we were given control over...
 

idea

Question Everything
Spammity spam spam spam

???

4. Spam and Advertising
Usually described as unsolicited or undesired electronic messages. There are many types of electronic spam. Copy pasting from other forums, posting advertisements or useless posts, unsolicited e-mail or private messaging, promoting other sites or items for sale. These will be deleted on sight and the poster may be banned. Advertising of sites and forums that might appear to be in competition to RF Requires the permission of an Admin.


Was this a copy/paste job? no
was this promoting another site? no - no links
was this posting an add for something? no

Does angellous seem to be bullying certain posters here rather than entering into an intelligent conversation? - Yes.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Now, how can one reconcile original sin with a sinless man unless you claim that sexual activity makes the person sinful under the concept of original sin in which case the commandment to be fruitful and replenish the earth is a commandment to commit sin or at very least a commandment to create something sinful.
Because the doctrine of Original Sin says nothing about guilt or sin committed...

It is a state contracted, not an act. What the doctrine of Original Sin says is that humanity had a fall.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Hey, getting it right is all about doing it right; there was something about perfectly overcoming the flesh while being subject to temptation before Christ was able to atone for sin and that's because....well....because that is the way it needed to be to be part of a perfectly effectual plan.:yes: I trust that our heavenly Father knows what He is doing.

then why did god require all that bbq action in the first place?
:shrug:
 

Evandr

Stripling Warrior
Because the doctrine of Original Sin says nothing about guilt or sin committed...

It is a state contracted, not an act. What the doctrine of Original Sin says is that humanity had a fall.

Okay, so what you are saying is that man is not born sinfull but mortal and I agree with that but, alas, the majority of Christianity will disagree.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Okay, so what you are saying is that man is not born sinfull but mortal and I agree with that but, alas, the majority of Christianity will disagree.
I disagree, the majority of Christians are Catholic, and the doctrine of Original Sin as I described is official Church teaching. A majority of American Christians might disagree with us, but not the same thing ;)
 

Evandr

Stripling Warrior
then why did god require all that bbq action in the first place?
:shrug:
It is a fact that the immutable principles of justice will be meted for mercy cannot rob justice otherwise order and growth would quickly turn to chaos and decay; cause always has consequence and it has to be the same for everyone.


We all know and understand that God has all power and knowledge and can do anything He wants to do, BUT, that does not mean that there are some things He will not do because of the consequences thereof, example: he will not cease to be God. If it were as simple as wielding power and creating everything without free will then why not just create a whole slew of harp playing angles and call it good?


There has to be a plan playing out of a necessity and that means requirements, conditions, and responsibilities, even those that God himself will not unjustly circumvent. He did manage to circumvent the demands of Justice with regard to sin by providing a savior, a perfect man that paid the dues of justice (don't ask how it was done because we cannot comprehend that) therefore tilting the odds in His favor because now justice demands that things be balanced again and therefore Jehovah was able to create a path around sin but we must keep his commandments or we must meet the demands of justice ourselves and that is something that a sinner cannot do.


Now keep in mind that there are several things happening at the same time and they all must work together; mortal probation is one and accomplishing the atonement is another and there are more but you get the idea. It seems unfortunate that people, when considering the requirements of one goal fail to consider that sometimes a path that seems simple enough to the goal, and therefore unnecessarily varied, is exactly as it needs to be because all things have to work together for the whole plan to come to a successful fruition in one eternal round where we can, as heirs to a living God, become like him and start the whole thing over again for our own eternal families. That is how God, who already has everything, can have eternal increase - The family. But keep in mind that the power of God is not something that he will hand out to unworthy children who will abuse it to their own destruction and that of others; so here we are working our way toward the ultimate goal in a plan that must be as it is or everything would come to a screeching halt and all ordered creation would cease to exist.
 

Heathen Hammer

Nope, you're still wrong
It is a fact that the immutable principles of justice will be meted for mercy cannot rob justice otherwise order and growth would quickly turn to chaos and decay; cause always has consequence and it has to be the same for everyone.

All well and good, except that the idea of Original Sin is unjust :)
 

idea

Question Everything
I disagree, the majority of Christians are Catholic, and the doctrine of Original Sin as I described is official Church teaching. A majority of American Christians might disagree with us, but not the same thing ;)

Original sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
yes, many different interpretations of it.

Here is a good discussion:
Restoring the Ancient Church, Chapter 4

scroll down to "original sin"
Original Sin and Original Guilt

...The mainstream doctrine of "original sin" thus includes the following elements.

1) Adam's Transgression had the effect of passing along a "sinful nature" to his posterity.
2) The "nature" spoken of includes both body and soul, so that an infant comes into the world not only with a body that is beset by animal passions, but a spirit that has a disposition to commit sin.

3) Not only is everyone affected by Adam's transgression, but they are guilty of it since they were present "in Adam" when he sinned.

4) Some churches, notably those with a Calvinist background, actually believe that the fall of human nature has been so complete that humans are incapable of truly righteous actions without the aid of the grace of Jesus Christ.

Latter-day Saints and Original Sin
Latter-day Saints, on the other hand, reject this doctrine of "original sin" as it is taught by the churches and proclaim that the atonement of Christ automatically pays for those effects of the Fall that are beyond our individual control. "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression." (Articles of Faith 2)17 However, the Fall did have an effect. Mankind has inherited a "fallen nature," but that is not to imply the "total depravity" of the Calvinists because while the human body is subject to animal passions, the immortal soul comes from God pure and righteous. Thus, all people are innocent from birth, and (except for those with diminished intellectual and moral capacity) are equipped with the moral agency for choosing between good and evil....


The New Testament and Original SinPaul spoke of the effects of the Fall in three closely related passages in Romans 5. ....
I won't copy it all, but it is a good discussion for anyone who is so inclined.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
It is a fact that the immutable principles of justice will be meted for mercy cannot rob justice otherwise order and growth would quickly turn to chaos and decay; cause always has consequence and it has to be the same for everyone.

you make it seem as though your god just can't leave it at that.

you also make it seem as though a persons integrity isn't worth crap.
and we are incapable of feeling remorse
and you also make it seem as though we can't learn from our mistakes as though experience is not necessary for knowledge
when in fact it it the best teacher.
you make it seem as though one should be afraid to make mistakes.

life isn't one dimensional...
 
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