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Jesus Camp

Runt

Well-Known Member
At the moment my roommates and I are sitting in the living room, watching the last third of the documentary "Jesus Camp". It spawned a couple questions that I thought I'd bring your way.

First, have you seen this movie, and if so, what was your estimation of it?

Second, do you believe it presents an accurate picture of Protestant Evangelicalism? I'm particularly interested in the views of those members of the forum who are themselves Evangelicals, but I'd like to hear the rest of your opinions as well.

Third, have you ever attended a religious camp---Bible or otherwise? What was it like? What did you do while you were there? How did it affect your faith?
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
I went to a religious summer camp in 6th grade, many moons ago.

Aside from the cruelty shown by the kids, and even encouraged by our so-called counselors, Lord knows how many girls turned up pregnant, as there were a number of couples sneaking out into the woods at night.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the whole thing.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
Does Runt mean "Jesus Camp"? I couldn't find a listing for a movie entitled Bible Camp anywhere.
 

Runt

Well-Known Member
Does Runt mean "Jesus Camp"? I couldn't find a listing for a movie entitled Bible Camp anywhere.
Whoops, you're right. I seem to be doing that a lot lately. I need to stop being so lazy...

*tries to find the "edit thread" option and fails* Okay, I KNOW there's a way to do it because I remember doing it, but where... where... *posts and searches more*
 

Runt

Well-Known Member
I went to a religious summer camp in 6th grade, many moons ago.

Aside from the cruelty shown by the kids, and even encouraged by our so-called counselors, Lord knows how many girls turned up pregnant, as there were a number of couples sneaking out into the woods at night.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the whole thing.
Wait wait wait, what kind of religious summer camp were you going to where the kids were encouraged to be cruel to one another and kids were off having sex and getting pregnant??? :eek: Was this normal for your religious institution/the camp, or did something go horribly wrong?
 

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
I haven't seen the movie, but I have seen scenes of it on Youtube. And really it's scares me, that people are raising kid to be hateful(yes I think they are), to any one that's not there type of Christian. To me I see them no better then Radical Muslims(not all, just the zealots).
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
At the moment my roommates and I are sitting in the living room, watching the last third of the documentary "Bible Camp". It spawned a couple questions that I thought I'd bring your way.

First, have you seen this movie, and if so, what was your estimation of it?

Yes, I saw it last year as part of a documentary festival. It was a bit worrisome.

Second, do you believe it presents an accurate picture of Protestant Evangelicalism?
Not necessarily of Protestant Evangelicalism as a whole (at least I hope not), but perhaps a segment within it. I do think it accurately portrayed the people and organizations shown in the movie.

When I saw the film, the two filmmakers were there to answer questions from the audience afterward. They said that they screened the film for everyone in it before it was released, and everyone but Ted Haggard approved of it... though, interestingly, the woman who ran the Jesus Camp (whose name I can't remember, unfortunately) complained that it was too boring; she wanted them to include the more "exciting" stuff that they had filmed (but had left out for fear it wouldn't be understood properly by the audience, and would make the film seem completely inflammatory).

Third, have you ever attended a religious camp---Bible or otherwise? What was it like? What did you do while you were there? How did it affect your faith?
Nope. No religious camps for me.

Well, I did go to a "Young Men's Christian Association" summer camp, but the YMCA doesn't really place emphasis on the "Christian" part these days.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Whoops, you're right. I seem to be doing that a lot lately. I need to stop being so lazy...

*tries to find the "edit thread" option and fails* Okay, I KNOW there's a way to do it because I remember doing it, but where... where... *posts and searches more*

I fixed it for you, Runt. ;)
 

Nanda

Polyanna
I went to a religious summer camp in 6th grade, many moons ago.

Aside from the cruelty shown by the kids, and even encouraged by our so-called counselors, Lord knows how many girls turned up pregnant, as there were a number of couples sneaking out into the woods at night.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the whole thing.

That sounds like my Bible Camp experience exactly.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
From the time I was in fifth grade, through my junior year of high school, I attended what we called "church camp" for a week every summer. Most of them were resident, sleep-over camps, but I did have the opportunity to go on two backpack hikes in the Rockies, and there were several float camps for junior and senior high on some of our beautiful local rivers.

Those times are cherished memories for me. I made some lifelong friends at church camp. In my denomination, we got some solid Bible and ethical teaching -- not conservative, not liberal -- and a whole lot of good, clean fellowship.

But...kids are kids. We snuck out of the cabins at night. We snuck cigarettes in and smoked them in secret. But, as I say, kids are kids, and kids do those things, no matter where they are -- or who they are.

I haven't seen the "Jesus Camp" movie, but I don't think it would have been a whole lot like my church camp experiences.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Wait wait wait, what kind of religious summer camp were you going to where the kids were encouraged to be cruel to one another and kids were off having sex and getting pregnant??? :eek: Was this normal for your religious institution/the camp, or did something go horribly wrong?

I was a summer camp run by the denomination I was raised in. In theory it was supposed to be a nice, safe, moral place to send your kids. In practice it sometimes was. Certainly during the Bible studies and so forth it was okay. But the supposedly "adult" counselors (college age) would either turn a blind eye or actually participate in some very awful practical jokes. Anyone who looked or acted the least outside the average was teased, and no adult corrected them. And the kids were not well-monitored.

And if you looked or acted outside a certain norm, you got teased, including jostled about and even assaulted, while the adults at most sat there like Roo and said "be nice, kids." The fat kids had it particularly bad. The counselors often helped in the abuse.

I thought it was particularly amusing (not) the one night where one kid got buckets of water dumped on him a 4am, drenching everything -- all his clothes, sleeping bag, etc. with the counselor's encouragement, and then was somehow expected to sleep in all that mess. Since I was awake I counted no less than 3 couples having a go out in the woods. At least two of them hurriedly put their clothes back on, separated and tried to sneak back during the ruckus, the the other couple was farther off and didn't bother, but the sounds were rather unmistakable. :rolleyes:

That was a fairly typical night.

Of course, the next morning we would all have to get up and act real holy and say grace and read our Bible passages and sing hymns.

The counselors really needed better training and more management from the adults in charge, I think.

My mother thought for years that I had called a week into the camp to be brought home because I was just homesick. It wasn't until this past June that I disabused her of that notion and gave her the full story of everything that went on. She asked me why I hadn't told her then (this was decades ago) and I said I had tried, but she told me to shut up. Ah...parents. :D

But to try and relate this to Jesus Camp, it was not like that. We didn't have to endure lectures about how awful other people were. The most we had to listen to was boring sermonettes about how angry God was about how sinful we all were.

Too bad the people in charge weren't more angry about our sins, imnsho.

Really it was no different than the private HS run by the denomination. As many problems as there were in the public schools at the time, the little angels from the private school were up to more no good, esp. in the realm of drugs and getting started early on that family. Well, that's what you get when everything is a taboo and repressed, I suppose.

I was hurt during a race riot in middle school, and called my brother from the HS rather than Mom. She still doesn't know this. I called my brother to hide the fact that I got hurt, because she would've shipped me off to that nice "safe" school. No thanks. I would've gone to the local Catholic school happily, but she would've preferred her own denomination and would not have listened to me, so I just did my own first aid. I probably should've had some stitches, but butterfly bandages and being very careful to avoid infection did the trick.

Some people get all nostalgic for their childhood, but I can't say I ever have. I couldn't wait to escape it, frankly.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Not necessarily of Protestant Evangelicalism as a whole (at least I hope not), but perhaps a segment within it. I do think it accurately portrayed the people and organizations shown in the movie.


Yes, based on my experiences here in Georgia, I'd say it's only a segment. It probably seems like more people, because in my experience people who believe the things like you see in Jesus Camp are much louder.

I've met many an Evangelical that was just fine to work or volunteer with that believed that others would be going to hell for believing otherwise. But they knew I was a Baha'i and never mistreated me. At most they might look for an opportunity to "witness" to me, but since I'm well acquainted with the BIble and Protestant Christianity, it's not like that went anywhere. It's hard to "convert" someone to your point of view when they keep finding a way to quote the Bible back at ya and keep agreeing with you, you know? :D


 

Runt

Well-Known Member
I haven't seen the movie, but I have seen scenes of it on Youtube. And really it's scares me, that people are raising kid to be hateful(yes I think they are), to any one that's not there type of Christian. To me I see them no better then Radical Muslims(not all, just the zealots).
To be honest, I didn't see a whole lot of hate being displayed in the movie. It was clear that some of the children considered their religion to be better than the religions of others, and the children also regarded mainstream scientific views (such as evolution) with humor and disdain, but there didn't seem to be anything I would recognize as hate or even dislike.
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
First, have you seen this movie, and if so, what was your estimation of it?
I haven't but I'd love to. It's been on my "to see" list since I heard of it.
Second, do you believe it presents an accurate picture of Protestant Evangelicalism? I'm particularly interested in the views of those members of the forum who are themselves Evangelicals, but I'd like to hear the rest of your opinions as well.
From what I've heard about it, based on my experiences I don't think it's a portrayal of what commonly goes on at religious camps.

Third, have you ever attended a religious camp---Bible or otherwise? What was it like? What did you do while you were there? How did it affect your faith?
Yes. I went to two different ones, and the first I went to was generally positive. We did things like go swimming and ride horses and did arts and crafts. There was an annual contest where the person who memorized the most verses got some kind of award at the end of the camp.

The second wasn't so cool. I was required to wear a dress to church every night (not just nice clothes, but a dress) and the preacher focused on how we deserve to be in hell and you're stupid if you don't accept Jesus.
 

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
To be honest, I didn't see a whole lot of hate being displayed in the movie. It was clear that some of the children considered their religion to be better than the religions of others, and the children also regarded mainstream scientific views (such as evolution) with humor and disdain, but there didn't seem to be anything I would recognize as hate or even dislike.

Ok, maybe hateful is not the right word, but to me it still was a bit Zealot. To quote the movie "You are the army of god, lay down your life for Jesus", that doesn't sound like a religion of love to me. But I've only seen the trailers, so.
 

Runt

Well-Known Member
Ok, maybe hateful is not the right word, but to me it still was a bit Zealot. To quote the movie "You are the army of god, lay down your life for Jesus", that doesn't sound like a religion of love to me. But I've only seen the trailers, so.
I admit, the notion of children being fashioned into an "army of god" was more than a little unsettling for me. But you have to understand that these children were not being told to go forth into the world and do violence upon the infidel. In the spirit of the movie, "Lay down your life" can be interpreted roughly as "devote your life"; they were being taught to live for Jesus, to go forth into the world and spread his message, and "take back America" not through violence, but, frankly, through preaching. Yes, it is zealous and unsettling, but it is not frightening in the sense that a 10 year old bombing an abortion clinic or a 5 year old telling someone "God hates you and is going to burn you in Hell forever" would be frightening.
 

Gentoo

The Feisty Penguin
I admit, the notion of children being fashioned into an "army of god" was more than a little unsettling for me. But you have to understand that these children were not being told to go forth into the world and do violence upon the infidel. In the spirit of the movie, "Lay down your life" can be interpreted roughly as "devote your life"; they were being taught to live for Jesus, to go forth into the world and spread his message, and "take back America" not through violence, but, frankly, through preaching. Yes, it is zealous and unsettling, but it is not frightening in the sense that a 10 year old bombing an abortion clinic or a 5 year old telling someone "God hates you and is going to burn you in Hell forever" would be frightening.

Do these kids understand that what they're being told to do: "Lay down your life", "take back America" etc. are not to be taken literally? Kids generally don't know how to abstract, especially the younger they are, and can take these highly metaphoric things literally; and sometimes take them to a bad end.
 
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