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Featured Jesus based on earlier deities?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Eddi, Jun 10, 2021 at 4:27 AM.

  1. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying

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    I'm looking for an informed and authoritative website that explains the similarities between Jesus and other figures, such as Mithras and Horus. Does anyone have any links they could please share? Perhaps there's a YouTube video that explains the notion? I'm having trouble finding stuff

    And whilst we're here could we have a discussion about this? Is Jesus really based on earlier deities?

    I don't know. It's a genuine question :D

    Here's a pic to get things going:

    JC copy.jpg
     
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  2. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

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    Zeitgeist is nonsense. Its claims are based on a combination of thin air, new age lies and long defunct theories of hack scholars from the 19th century.
     
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  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
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    Krishna was resurrected?! Who was it exactly that resurrected him? :p

    People will base stories upon other stories they're inspired by or that they think will inspire others. So perhaps there are parts of the story of Jesus that are based on stories of others.

    People will also draw parallels to suit their agenda, as evidenced by the image in the OP.
     
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  4. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    Dionysus was born of a virgin? You definitely have to get creative in your interpretation of Greek mythology to make that claim. The best way I can think of doing it would be to take the version in which his second birth (it's complicated) was achieved by Zeus providing Semele with a potion to drink. Even then, Dionysus's first birth was a result of good, old-fashioned sex. That's something they've apparently conveniently ignored in order to simultaneously say that he was resurrected.

    Also, Dionysus was a god and therefore displayed godlike powers. Saying Jesus is based on him because both performed miracles is completely asinine. As for being born on December 25th, he was an ancient Greek god. Unless there's some later interpretation I'm not aware of that gives him that birth date, I'm going to just work on the assumption that they made this up entirely.

    In fact, I'm pretty confident in assuming that most of the facts in that picture are either completely made up or are a result of incredibly selective interpretations of mythology.

    That pretty neatly sums up the issue with arguing Jesus was based on earlier Pagan deities. You have to ignore everything that doesn't neatly fit into your argument.
     
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  5. Vouthon

    Vouthon Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
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    The salient points of Jesus's story, if you remove the miraculous elements, are about the son of a carpenter from Galilee who gets baptized in the river Jordan by the founder of an apocalyptic, restorationist Jewish sect which he subsequently goes on to branch off of with his own movement after the death of the Baptizer, by claiming that he is the Messiah prophesized by John the Baptist.

    He then wanders around towns and villages of Israel, proclaiming that the Kingdom of God has arrived, teaching morals through pithy aphorisms and charming parabolic stories, and healing people from illnesses.

    After falling foul of the Judean priestly authorities in Jerusalem for allegedly teaching blasphemy, and for causing a disturbance in the Second Jewish Temple near the Feast of Passover, he is arrested, tried and executed on a Roman cross.

    Now, to me, there is very little in this narrative which is like that of Horus, Krishna or Mithra.

    When you bring in the miraculous elements (after what scholars would judge to be the historical core of the tradition), yes other figures like Apollonius of Tyana and the Buddha were reputed miracle workers. But that is a staple of many ancient religious accounts, intended to buttress the divine claims of the founding figure. Yes, the slaughter of the Innocents in Matthew was modelled after Moses's birth, the temptation in the desert narrative by Satan has some broad parallels with the Buddha being tempted by Mara under the Bodhi Tree etc.

    However, this doesn't alter the fact that the basic "plot points" of Jesus's life-story are still largely unique to himself.
     
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  6. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
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    Can I just hire you to make all my points for me? You articulate things so much better than I ever could.
     
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  7. KerimF

    KerimF Active Member

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    Well, I wish I will hear, someday, of a source that also tells me, as Jesus does, that the One Will behind my existence is of two spiritual independent beings (two in the least) who are unified fully, since before Creation, by the Spirit of Love.

    By the way, 'being born of a virgin' is known (by doctors) to happen in very rare cases, when a female has also a gland that functions as a temporary/limited prostate. So, on one hand, 'being born of a virgin' doesn't imply that the born baby is for sure not a normal human baby. On the other hand, an incarnated spiritual being is supposed not to have an earthly father, so the female from whom he comes to the world is one of these rare females.
     
  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
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    [citation needed]
     
  9. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    It's well known that the claims in the pic are ... eum... "creative" at best.

    Having said that, eventhough I never really looked into it (primarily because I don't think it's that important), it is off course undeniable that there's quite a bit of symbolism in christianity that isn't original to abrahamic religion at all. Even entire stories seem inspired / copied / appropriated from earlier cultures.

    The Epic of Gilgamesh comes to mind. Certain parts of the code of Hammurabi also.
    And I'm sure many more.
     
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  10. KerimF

    KerimF Active Member

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    Sorry, it is needed by whom?

    If it is needed by someone (you or any other one), I hope he can deal with what he heard from me as he likely does with many ideas he may hear of while watching science-fiction movies. That is, he just ignores it.

    But, if it is needed by a ruling system (social, religious or political), I apologize for sharing what I have in mind and I am ready to delete my post when requested (since, without adding a citation, it is seen offending); if it will not be deleted by the system itself, as in real life.

    Anyway, your request is very normal. This happens anytime when someone hears something he is not familiar to or doesn't expect hearing it anytime.
     
  11. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
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    Me or anyone else you expect to lend credence to your claim.
     
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  12. KerimF

    KerimF Active Member

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    Your remark is very good.

    But, in real life, almost no one in the world (I said 'almost' because there are always exceptions to the rule) is ready to hear/trust seriously an ordinary powerless person in whatever he may say. Therefore, if that person looks to be heard, he has to find out first someone else who is privileged by a powerful rich system, religious or political, and did say the same thing.

    Since I am an ordinary powerless person and doesn't need convincing anyone about anything, I just share what I have in mind (with or without citations) while I accept (and respect) others as they are (even if some of them are created to play my enemies).
     
  13. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
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    Being taken seriously or being trusted is not about power. It's about honesty and integrity.
     
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  14. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    What he might have been referring to as an extremely rare case of partial parthenogenesis in humans. In humans unfertilised ovules may activate and start to reproduce which results in an unviable embryo that is quickly expelled by the body, though in one case a small deformed, but otherwise viable boy was born from the product of a partial parthenogenesis which was fertilized as it was starting its reproduction cycle. The end product was a living child with some physical deformities, but otherwise rather healthy and whose circulatory system is perfectly cloned from his mother. The boy, obviously, still has a biological father, it's not at all a virgin birth, but an extremely rare case of abnormal fetal development.

    The boy whose blood has no father | New Scientist
     
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  15. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    The Horu one is all wrong.
     
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  16. KerimF

    KerimF Active Member

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    Again, your point is very good.

    I am afraid that in Jesus story, Jesus was condemned to death not because he wasn't honest but because what he was revealing openly oppose what the ruling systems in his time, religious and political, expect their common people to believe and do.

    Even after about 2000 years, many sayings of Jesus (though printed on the today's Gospel) are not allowed to be preached openly via satellites. The prestige of preaching the world is given to the official speakers of the ruling systems only, religious or political, and these speakers are allowed to tell the world's multitudes, almost daily, what to believe and do in the name of God or Science (Yes, even Science has its prophets who are called Scientists and presented to the world as being immortal good angels who have no reason at all to fool/deceive their audience in the name of Science anytime they may be asked to do it).
     
  17. Daemon Sophic

    Daemon Sophic Avatar in flux

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    There is an expression that you should get used to. “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

    Interesting. My first thought was a mosaic.....but a chimera would indeed fit the bill.
    I have no way of knowing if this discusses the same subject boy, but it is an informative abstract from The Journal of Human Genetics.....A case of a parthenogenetic 46,XX/46,XY chimera presenting ambiguous genitalia - PubMed

    As you point out, it is NOT a “virgin birth” though.
     
  18. KerimF

    KerimF Active Member

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    And let us be realistic. Who in the world can believe one of the very rare girls who becomes pregnant without knowing a man?!
    In most communities around the world (even in many regions in the Free World), such a girl would face death if she couldn't get rid of her child before it was too late and no doctor would be able to save her and her child by proving her innocence.
     
  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    When Jewish prophets do miracles it flies in the face of previous paradigms in which only gods do miracles (and magicians using the permission of the gods or magical names given by the gods). Jesus doing miracles is based on the Jewish paradigm and represents humans becoming more divine or part of the divine. If Jesus performs a similar miracle the meaning remains different from that of Greek, Egyptian or other ancient god miracles.
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    By what the Bible tells, Jesus is a man, not a god. Therefore, I would think he is not based on any gods.

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    1 Timothy 2:5
     
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