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Jesus as the only son of God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Ori, Jun 2, 2005.

  1. Ori

    Ori Angel slayer

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    It's my understanding that Jesus Christ was God's son, in whom God was well pleased. As apparently God pointed out during Jesus' baptism.

    So.. since when was it said that Jesus was the only son of God? I thought that because we were created by God then we must all be the sons of God.

    It appears that it was Jesus' followers who labelled him as the only son of God. Do any of you agree with this? That question is to Christians as well. I don't see any reason why not beleiving that Jesus is the only son of God can prohibit them from following Jesus' teachings, in other words, being a Christian.
     
  2. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I don't think it is a question of 'believing ' that; there are enough references to it in the bible; here are just a few:-
    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
    1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him
    Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
    John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
    1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
    :)
     
  3. Ori

    Ori Angel slayer

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    Thank you for taking the time to reply michel.
     
  4. Malus 12:9

    Malus 12:9 Temporarily Deactive.

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    We are ALL God's son's, orichdude.
     
  5. Ori

    Ori Angel slayer

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    "orichdude"
    Thats a contender for the best compliment i've had on here.
     
  6. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Renaldo, I think Orichalcum wants Biblical references;

    You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. —Galatians 3:26; which actually says that if you do not have faith in Jesus Christ, presumably we are not.:)
     
  7. Malus 12:9

    Malus 12:9 Temporarily Deactive.

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    Well, good enough.

    If I recall I answerdd this in another thread named
    "Why is Son mentioned so much in the bible"

    and I posted (one of)

    [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]"You are gods; you are all Sons of the Most High." (Psalm 82:6) [/font]
     
  8. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    But we are not the only Begotten Son of God (John 3:16), who was sinless and had all the diety and components of God Himself. We are children of God, but only through the chief high priest and Son of the Most High God, Jesus Christ. Why didn't God choose Moses or anyone else for that matter to sacrifice himself for the sins of humanity? There was something certainly special about Jesus. He was God's only begotten Son. To put ourselves on the same par with Jesus would be to diefy ourselves. :)
     
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  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    From a Christian point of view, I am sure you are right.:)
     
  10. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    Ori, of course we are all the children (sons and daughters) of God, if you believe in God that is.

    What Christians believe is that, although we are God's children it was kinda indirect - we were made by God like a man today might make a robot. Christians believe Jesus was the literal Son of God as in he originated for the sperm of God himself (so to speak), he wasn't just fashioned from clay like the rest of us.

    To the second part of your question, you can follow Jesus's teachings without believing he was divine - I do just that. You won't be Christian because you wouldn't believe he was Christ (Jesus Christ wasn't his actual name don't ya know?), you'd just be following him as a student does a teacher, rather than a sheep does a shepherd.
     
  11. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    Peace,

    Why did Jesus tell others to be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect if it is impossible to be on the same par as Jesus(being sinless/perfect)? Also, why did Jesus say that those who come after him will do greater works than he(this would mean that those would be greater than he was as far as works were concerned)?
    also, Psalms 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Does this mean that David was also the "begotten son of God"? of course not, it is not to be taken literally, just like the references to Jesus being the "begotten son of God" are not literal.
    Jesus did not claim to literally be the begotten son of God, nor did he claim to be the totality of God. He claimed to be human, a son of Adam.
     
  12. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Hi, orichalcum.

    There are several places in the scriptures where Jesus Christ is referred to as God's "only begotten Son," among them John 3:16. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    However, Acts 17:28 refers to us as His children, too. "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." To me, the phrase "his offspring" implies a closer relationship than "his creations" would. Not only do I personally think of God as my "Father in Heaven," Jesus referred to Him on many occasions as "our" (plural) Father in Heaven. So, obviously He also recognized us as His brothers and sisters.

    The difference between us and Jesus Christ in terms of our relationship with "our Father in Heaven" is explained in Hebrews 12:9, which states, "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

    So, it is my belief that Jesus is the "only begotten Son of the Father in the flesh," while we were spiritually begotten by God and then physically begotten by our parents.

    Kathryn
     
  13. Lloyd

    Lloyd Member

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    The way I see it these kinship claims are all just metaphors for the relationship between God, Jesus, and humanity. It's not so much that Jesus is the only begotten son of God but that the relationship between him and God is special and higher than the relationship ordinary people have with God. At the same time, yes we are all God's children. Jesus himself taught us to pray to "our Father." This is because God is our ultimate origin. If this language is just a tool for understanding rather than descriptive then to say we're all children of God doens't necessarily deify us. In fact by showing our dependence on God for our origin that kind of implys that we are his creation and thus, not God.

    I'm not accustomed though, to thinking of someone or something as being simply God or not God. In the Baha'i Faith and I know in other faiths as well, by doing good humans can participate in God's being. For example, generosity is an attribute of God and can be likened to a ray of the divine sun. By being generous to others, a mere human can be a ray of that divine sun. Baha'is interpret the passage "Let us make man in our own image" as saying that it refers not to the literal creation of humans but to God's plan to encourage humans to take on the virtues of God himself. In this way God's essence is totally beyond our grasp but we can see his "image," in people who live by his commandments.

    I just thought I'd share that.
     
  14. Stormygale

    Stormygale Member

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    People do not understand that Jesus was not a 'son' in the sense of the word. He was God in the flesh, sent to our dusty little planet, as a sign for all to see, and to realize that God was actually a living thing in Heaven. God had to live what he preached. He could not just tell the world to act and not sin, and live and not faulter, without his own actions toward it. He had to make a body, "JESUS", and enter the world, be tempted as we are, and show us that though we are human, we can do it, because God himself accomplished the feat. God did not know death. He had to come to earth and feel pain, and accomplish death, and resurrection, to show the world that he is capable, and so are we....
    Thomas was not the only one who was given faith and assureance by touching Jesus. It was a sign to the whole of humanity, that God had come down in his Son, and did it all for us...
     
  15. Ron68

    Ron68 New Member

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    Long before Jesus was born, God said to David (Psalms 2:7): "I will declare the decree:
    the Lord hath said unto me [David]: 'Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee."' So
    David is also God's begotten son. The meaning of "Son of God" is not literal but
    metaphorical. It can be anyone who is beloved by God. Jesus also said that God is not only
    his Father but also your Father (Matthew 5:45, 48).



    You can see in many biblical passages that the phrase "Son of God" signifies love and
    affection and neamess to God, and that it is not to be applied to Jesus alone. You will see
    sons and daughters of God: II Connthians 6:18: "And will be a Father unto you, and ye
    shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." In view of these and other
    passages in the Bible, there is no reason why Jesus should be regarded as the son of God
    in a literal or unique sense.



    Yes, it is simple and nobody can deny it. Jesus called himself the son of man and
    refused to be called son of God. Read Luke 4:41.


    "Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said: 'This is of a truth
    that prophet that should come into the world."' Jesus is also called a prophet in John 7:40;
    Matthew 21:11; Luke 7:16 and 24:19. In Acts 9:20, we read: "And straightway he [Paul]
    preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the son of God." (You can conclude from
    here also that early Christians were still using synagogues, but later when Christianity
    deviated from the original teaching of Jesus, churches were established. Paul, Barnabas,
    and the Gentiles were expelled from the synagogues, as they were accused of blasphemy
    and pollution. See Acts 13:50, 17:18, and 21:28.). In Luke 2:11, it is said that: "For unto
    you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord" and in John 1:1:
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
     
  16. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    Jesus was referred to as the "Son of Man" based on what he was sent to do for humanity and that is, sacrifice Himself on the cross. John 3:16 stated that God so loved the world, that He gave His "only begotten Son" (Jesus) that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. In 2 Corinthians 5:21it says "He made Him who knew no sin be sin for us". Jesus did say we were children of the most high because we are heirs through Him and we were created by God. That's why He said "I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me (John 14:6). Why did God reference David as a begotten Son, because He created him and also put him in a position of power and leadership. But Jesus was not created, he was there from the beginning, unique to all of us because He was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God (John 1:1). Isaiah fortold of Christ's suffering and sacrifice in the Old Testament in Isaiah 53:5 that He was wounded for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities. The chastisement that brought us peace was upon Him and with His stripes, we are healed. Jesus was unique and special and it would be a mistake for us to deify ourselves and put ourselves on a level palying field with Christ. You made reference to 2 Corinthians 6:18, but you fail to make reference to the verses that preceded it (14-17) which has material meaning to the context of that scripture. After Jesus was baptized by John the baptist, scripture states that the heaven opened and a voice said (Matthew 3:17) "This is my Son, whom I love, with Him I am well pleased". Also reference 2 Peter 1:17,18 when Peter recalls witnessing the Glory of Christ" with other disciples and hearing the voice of God proclaim once again the love and pleasure of His Son. They are not making movies these days about the Passion of Me or the Passion of David, the Passion of Moses or even the Passion of Muhammed, but they made one of those most highest grossing movies about who? The Passion of the Christ". For someone that in your opinion was just a prophet, why go through all that trouble? I believe there was something special about Jesus!:)
     
  17. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    I think we are all sons of God in that all our souls come from God. Though Jesus clearly had a special roll to play, and for that a special relationship to God was needed.
     
  18. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    blueman,
    just for your reference: Jesus is known as the messiah in the Quran. As Jesus said, one will come after him and glorify him. that is what Muhammad did. Jesus is glorified in the quran, just not as a man-god like the romans were famous for worshipping, and still do today.

    peace.
     
  19. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    1. Jacob is God's son and firstborn: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22.
    1. Solomon is God's son "He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son": 2 Samuel 7:13-14.
    1. Ephraim is God's firstborn: "for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Jeremiah 31:9 (who is God's firstborn? Israel or Ephraim?).
    1. Adam is the son of God "Adam, which was the son of God." Luke 3:38.
    1. Common people (you and me) are the sons of God: "Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" Romans 8:14. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12. "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15. "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: ... now are we the sons of God" 1 John 3:1-2. "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:7. "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 2:1. "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 1:6. "when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men," Genesis 6:4. "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair" Genesis 6:2

    As we can see, the use of the term "son of God" when describing normal human beings was not at all an uncommon practice among Jesus' people.


    Well then, was Jesus the only begotten son of God? Read Psalms 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (King David, King), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.".


    Indeed, the Jews are even referred to as much more than this in the Bible, and this is indeed the very trait which Jesus (pbuh) held against them. When the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus (pbuh) he defended himself with the following words


    "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, 'I said, Ye are gods?' If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken..." John 10:34:


    (he was referring to Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High..") As we can see from these and many other verses like them, "son of God" in the language of the Jews was a very innocent term used to describe a loyal servant of God. Whether the translators and editors chose to write it as "Son of God" (with a capital S) in reference to Jesus and "son of God" (with a small S) in reference to everyone else does not diminish the fact that in the original language, both cases are exactly the same. Are we beginning to see what drove the most learned men of the Anglican Church to recognize the truth? But let us move on.


    Grolier's encyclopedia, under the heading "Jesus Christ," says:


    "During his earthly life Jesus was addressed as rabbi and was regarded as a prophet. Some of his words, too, place him in the category of sage. A title of respect for a rabbi would be "my Lord." Already before Easter his followers, impressed by his authority, would mean something more than usual when they addressed him as "my Lord.".... it is unlikely that the title "Son of David" was ascribed to him or accepted by him during his earthly ministry. "Son of God," in former times a title of the Hebrew kings (Psalms 2:7), was first adopted in the post-Easter church as an equivalent of Messiah and had no metaphysical connotations (Romans 1:4). Jesus was conscious of a unique filial relationship with God, but it is uncertain whether the Father/Son language (Mark 18:32; Matt. 11:25-27 par.; John passim) goes back to Jesus himself" .


    There seems to be only two places in the Bible where Jesus (pbuh) refers to himself as "son of God." They are in John chapters 5 and 11. Hastings in "The dictionary of the Bible" says: "Whether Jesus used it of himself is doubtful." Regardless, we have already seen what is meant by this innocent title. However, Jesus is referred to as the "son of Man" (literally: "Human being") 81 times in the books of the Bible. In the Gospel of Barnabas, we are told that Jesus (pbuh) knew that mankind would make him a god after his departure and severely cautioned his followers from having anything to do with such people.


    Jesus was not the son of a human man (according to both the Bible and the Qur'an). However, we find him constantly saying "I am the son of man." Why?. It was because in the language of the Jews, that is how you say "I am a human being."
    What was he trying to tell us by constantly repeating and emphasizing to us throughout the New Testament "I am a human being," "I am a human being," "I am a human being"?
    from: 1.2.3.2 How many "Sons" does God have?
     
  20. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    Hebrew7:15 But the Melchizedek story provides a perfect analogy: Jesus, a priest like Melchizedek, 16 not by genealogical descent but by the sheer force of resurrection life - he lives! - 17 "priest forever in the royal order of Melchizedek." 18 The former way of doing things, a system of commandments that never worked out the way it was supposed to, was set aside; 19 the law brought nothing to maturity. Another way - Jesus! - a way that does work, that brings us right into the presence of God, is put in its place. 20 The old priesthood of Aaron perpetuated itself automatically, father to son, without explicit confirmation by God. 21 But then God intervened and called this new, permanent priesthood into being with an added promise: God gave his word; he won't take it back: "You're the permanent priest." 22 This makes Jesus the guarantee of a far better way between us and God - one that really works! A new covenant. 23 Earlier there were a lot of priests, for they died and had to be replaced. 24 But Jesus' priesthood is permanent. He's there from now to eternity 25 to save everyone who comes to God through him, always on the job to speak up for them. 26 So now we have a high priest who perfectly fits our needs: completely holy, uncompromised by sin, with authority extending as high as God's presence in heaven itself. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he doesn't have to offer sacrifices for his own sins every day before he can get around to us and our sins. He's done it, once and for all: offered up himself as the sacrifice. 28 The law appoints as high priests men who are never able to get the job done right. But this intervening command of God, which came later, appoints the Son, who is absolutely, eternally perfect.
    Abraham presented Melchizedek with a tithe (a tenth) of all the booty he had gathered. By this act Abraham indicated that he recognized Melchizedek as a fellow-worshiper of the one true God as well as a priest who ranked higher spiritually than himself. Melchizedek's existence shows that there were people other than Abraham and his family who served the true God. In Psalm 110, a messianic psalm written by David (Matt. 22:43), Melchizedek is seen as a type of Christ. This theme is repeated in the Book of Hebrews, where both Melchizedek and Christ are considered kings of righteousness and peace. By citing Melchizedek and his unique priesthood as a type, the writer shows that Christ's new priesthood is superior to the old Levitical order and the priesthood of Aaron (Heb. 7:1-10; Melchisedec, KJV). Attempts have been made to identify Melchizedek as . . . an angel, the Holy Spirit, Christ, and others.

    Within the interpretation of Ps. 110 that occupies much of the epistle to the Hebrews, Heb. 7 builds on Gen. 14:18-20. Abraham's acknowledgment of the legitimacy of Melchizedek's priesthood becomes an argument for the priority of that priesthood over the "descendants of Levi" (vv. 4-10). The messianic ruler of Ps. 110 is, therefore, a priest of a line prior to the levitical priesthood ("after the order of Melchizedek"; Heb. 7:11-19; KJV "Melchisedec"; cf. 5:6, 10; 6:20). That the narrative of the king-priest Melchizedek is introduced so abruptly into Genesis becomes an argument for Melchizedek's being "without father or mother or genealogy," i.e., beginning or end (7:3), and so not only a predecessor but also a type of Christ as "a priest for ever" (cf. Ps. 110:4). The legitimacy of the levitical priesthood depends on its descent from Levi; as it has a beginning, so it has an end in the understanding of the author of Hebrews.



     
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