Jesus as evidence God is crazy?

[KingNothing]

Christians are taught that Jesus had to die so that we might be saved? I thought God was all-powerful. Why would God make it so he had to go hang on a cross for six hours and die? Does this suggest there are other powers on the level with God?

I guess you could claim God is omnipotent and this was a demonstration of His love. But then I'd ask; suppose I shove an icepick into my eye to demonstrate my love to you when I could have just given you a hug instead. Am I then loving or just plain crazy? Is God crazy?

 

[SB Habakuk]

Do not betray what is in you for what is without-
For truth cometh into the world but by an Image- it is for this Image he died that they could never say of him- he did not love, he did not die.

No man will see the face of the father unless he believes that Christ died for it is the Image of the Reconciliation which is important

For a righteous man cannot be rightous unless Christ nullifies what is Righteous
for Rightousness and Evil are twins
WHen he died both were swallowed up leaving only one state

Christian

 

[KingNothing]

Do not betray what is in you for what is without-
For truth cometh into the world but by an Image- it is for this Image he died that they could never say of him- he did not love, he did not die.

No man will see the face of the father unless he believes that Christ died for it is the Image of the Reconciliation which is important

For a righteous man cannot be rightous unless Christ nullifies what is Righteous
for Rightousness and Evil are twins
WHen he died both were swallowed up leaving only one state

Christian

I have no idea what you're trying to say. If you want to lead people to Christ I'd suggest learning how to better communicate with them. No offense intended.

 

[nutshell]

Christians are taught that Jesus had to die so that we might be saved? I thought God was all-powerful. Why would God make it so he had to go hang on a cross for six hours and die? Does this suggest there are other powers on the level with God?

I guess you could claim God is omnipotent and this was a demonstration of His love. But then I'd ask; suppose I shove an icepick into my eye to demonstrate my love to you when I could have just given you a hug instead. Am I then loving or just plain crazy? Is God crazy?

Justice had to be satisfied...I'll get into this more later.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Christians are taught that Jesus had to die so that we might be saved? I thought God was all-powerful. Why would God make it so he had to go hang on a cross for six hours and die? Does this suggest there are other powers on the level with God?

Numerous times in the New International Version of Genesis, God uses the plural when discussing his actions.

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image...'" - Genesis 1:26.

 

[SB Habakuk]

there are 4 realities in the world
2 truths and 2 evils

1.The Truth as recorded in the Bible (also Scientific truth)
1. Truth which exist (before every notion of time , or notion of God)

3. Falsehood which is inherrently Evil
4. Truth (as defined in 1) which is mixed with Falsehood being neither one nor the other this is called the Middle or Death this is the worst state

When Christ died he extinquished 1,3 & 4
all that was left was Truth befoire any notion of Time, before any notion of God or Blessedness or Church

I hope you glean from this that which you seek
Continue to seek and you will be astonished
and you will laugh and then you will attain rest
as Christ rested

For a Righteous man is always at rest

 

[ALifetimeToWaitFor....]

i believe it is because if God is the creater he has to follow the rules of his creation and obviously one of them was mans ability to sin, but he didnt want to be seperated from them forever so he scarificed Jesus for Satan to torture so that some people could be saved. At least that was my belief when I was a Christian.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Christians are taught that Jesus had to die so that we might be saved? I thought God was all-powerful. Why would God make it so he had to go hang on a cross for six hours and die? Does this suggest there are other powers on the level with God?

Process Theology of the Cross

 

[Faint]

Justice had to be satisfied...I'll get into this more later.

If you believe in Him, how is there a "justice" outside of God's whim?

 

[Quiddity]

Christians are taught that Jesus had to die so that we might be saved? I thought God was all-powerful. Why would God make it so he had to go hang on a cross for six hours and die? Does this suggest there are other powers on the level with God?

I guess you could claim God is omnipotent and this was a demonstration of His love. But then I'd ask; suppose I shove an icepick into my eye to demonstrate my love to you when I could have just given you a hug instead. Am I then loving or just plain crazy? Is God crazy?

He didn't have to hang on the cross, all he had to do is die. Even if it meant a natural death. Next....

 

[KingNothing]

Thanks angellous. I've just gotten a chance to skim some of the linked thread and it looks like what I'm looking for.

 

[Faint]

there are 4 realities in the world
2 truths and 2 evils

Four? Why aren't each of these considered just one reality? Okay, I'll play along...

3. Falsehood which is inherrently Evil

Would you consider deception a form of falsehood? Is all deception evil?

Also, would you say that God is responsible for all evil?

 

[SB Habakuk]

Infact jesus became alive before Calvary- I speak of life that knows no death

On the Mount of Transformation- he was but on the mystery of the one termed Father
as recorded by the prophet Haggaia
take of these rags from my servant Joshua and put on him a clean robe .

 

[SB Habakuk]

Infact jesus became alive before Calvary- I speak of life that knows no death

On the Mount of Transformation- he was but on the mystery of the one termed Father
as recorded by the prophet Haggaia
take of these rags from my servant Joshua and put on him a clean robe .

 

[Wandered Off]

I guess you could claim God is omnipotent and this was a demonstration of His love. But then I'd ask; suppose I shove an icepick into my eye to demonstrate my love to you when I could have just given you a hug instead. Am I then loving or just plain crazy?

Well I'd be more inclined to believe you were serious if it caused pain. Anyone can fake a hug...

On the other hand, if God is omnipotent, then any pain is optional and ultimately self-inflicted, so I guess we're back to crazy.

 

[roli]

[

quote=KingNothing]Christians are taught that Jesus had to die so that we might be saved? I thought God was all-powerful. Why would God make it so he had to go hang on a cross for six hours and die? Does this suggest there are other powers on the level with God?

The power of sin leading to death was a choice man had to make,the penalty was paid by someone other than the one who commited the act,how merciful and loving H e must be.
Death was the law of God for sin,sin can not enter into the presence of a Holy God,in order to save man and to demonstrate his love for man even in his fallen nature,Jesus had to die
Just like if you break the law ,you will need a lawyer to represent you before the courts and justify you lawfully.
God said without the shedding of blood (as life is in the blood) there is no remission of sins.
But to satisfy a Holy God, a perfect sacrifice must be made,otherwise how could one criminal pay the price for another crinimal,God required perfection so he sent His Son into the world in the likeness of sinful flesh who was likewise tempted as we are but was without sin,why? so Jesus could identify with us as a man.
He was crucified so that He by His own divine nature could receive man if they come to God through the sacrifice as a means of atonment or propitiation

I guess you could claim God is omnipotent and this was a demonstration of His love. But then I'd ask; suppose I shove an icepick into my eye to demonstrate my love to you when I could have just given you a hug instead. Am I then loving or just plain crazy? Is God crazy

We just don't understand the justice system of God's kingdom.
The nature of man was corrupt and in order to change that nature and appease the penalty of sin in the person.
One must receive Christ and His redemption and by that receive the gift of His Holy Spirit to empower us to overcome this world and it's lures and change our nature to live for him and justify us from the demans of a Holy God
If we hugged criminals in our justice system would that change the criminal's behavior justify the demands of the law and act as a deterant
Understand your point but considerably different,as the law of God required a sacrifice and chose His own over his creation

 

[James the Persian]

Christians are taught that Jesus had to die so that we might be saved? I thought God was all-powerful. Why would God make it so he had to go hang on a cross for six hours and die? Does this suggest there are other powers on the level with God?

I guess you could claim God is omnipotent and this was a demonstration of His love. But then I'd ask; suppose I shove an icepick into my eye to demonstrate my love to you when I could have just given you a hug instead. Am I then loving or just plain crazy? Is God crazy?

Substitutionary atonement and the juridical view of the faith that it is based on is a comparitively recent and peculiarly western teaching within Christianity. It is not the be all and end all of the faith and nor is it the oldest understanding of Christ's Incarnation. I, and millions of other eastern Christians, am in no doubt that it is incorrect. If you want to understand the much older, eastern interpretation (and one which does not require belief in either a vindictive or a non-omnipotent God) then I'd suggest reading St. Athanasios' On the Incarnation, which can be found online.

James

 

[*Paul*]

Oops. i've deleted what was here previously as it was meant for another thread.

 

[KingNothing]

I'm well aware of what the Bible says. I've read it several times and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't waste a full screen on passages. I'm looking for interpretations. And whether or not the Bible is perfect, our interpretations are not, for they are always changing.

Also, I'm well aware of the concept of original sin and these so called laws some of you have referred to. My question isn't why did Jesus have to die on the cross. My question is why did God create a justice system such that Jesus had to die on the cross. Please note the difference.

 

[James the Persian]

I'm well aware of what the Bible says. I've read it several times and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't waste a full screen on passages. I'm looking for interpretations. And whether or not the Bible is perfect, our interpretations are not, for they are always changing.

Also, I'm well aware of the concept of original sin and these so called laws some of you have referred to. My question isn't why did Jesus have to die on the cross. My question is why did God create a justice system such that Jesus had to die on the cross. Please note the difference.

My question would be 'Did He'. And the answer would be 'no'. Not all Christians, as I said, beleive in Substitutionary Atonement. For what it's worth we don't believe in Original Sin either (at least we don't believe in what is usually meant by those who use that phrase).

James