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Jesus as an antithesis to Passover

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
A number of recent posts related to Jesus rising on Easter or the like made me realize that this would make Jesus kind of the opposite of one of the main ideas of Passover, which is ironic because Christians consider him to be the ultimate Passover lamb.

Let me explain: During Passover, Jews eat unleavened bread, called "matzah" in Hebrew. This is in memory of the bread that the Israelites took with them out of Egypt which didn't rise because they left hurriedly. You can probably already tell where I'm going with this...

The Israelites were hurriedly taken out of Egypt. This seems kind of strange because as they were in Egypt for so long, God couldn't wait a few hours more for them to make proper bread? There are many answers to this question, but the general idea is that it was necessary for the Israelites to leave in a hurry, and it was likewise necessary for the bread not to have had enough time to rise.

Jesus, on the other hand, is said to have risen after three days. In other words, he was in no real hurry, and he rose, just like the sort of bread that is not consumed on Passover.

So it seems to me difficult to suggest that Jesus somehow fulfilled Passover or something like that. Quite the opposite, actually.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
The Orthodox Church does actually specifically use leavened bread, so this might not actually be as much of an issue. Christians often see anti-types in the Tanakh, which the NT is meant to reverse and be its kind of opposite. I.e., Adam bringing death but Jesus as the new Adam bringing life; the mabul killing everyone, but full body baptism in water being a fresh start by washing away sins.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
A number of recent posts related to Jesus rising on Easter or the like made me realize that this would make Jesus kind of the opposite of one of the main ideas of Passover, which is ironic because Christians consider him to be the ultimate Passover lamb.

Let me explain: During Passover, Jews eat unleavened bread, called "matzah" in Hebrew. This is in memory of the bread that the Israelites took with them out of Egypt which didn't rise because they left hurriedly. You can probably already tell where I'm going with this...

The Israelites were hurriedly taken out of Egypt. This seems kind of strange because as they were in Egypt for so long, God couldn't wait a few hours more for them to make proper bread? There are many answers to this question, but the general idea is that it was necessary for the Israelites to leave in a hurry, and it was likewise necessary for the bread not to have had enough time to rise.

Jesus, on the other hand, is said to have risen after three days. In other words, he was in no real hurry, and he rose, just like the sort of bread that is not consumed on Passover.

So it seems to me difficult to suggest that Jesus somehow fulfilled Passover or something like that. Quite the opposite, actually.
There is an appearance of a connection since the top of bread goes upwards as it inflates. Other people notice this, too. At my childhood church we made a point of using normal risen bread (not flat like the Catholics) for communion, specifically because the pastor thought it was cool that the risen bread was superficially suggestive of resurrection. On the other hand...

I think there actually is no connection between the rising of the bread and the resurrection. Nobody compares getting out of bed with rising of dough. Choosing risen bread versus flat bread for communion is about as relevant as tinsel versus electric lights on trees. (not really relevant to communion as either bread is appropriate).

The three days do clash with the hurried celebration of passover, yes. You cannot both wait for three days and also hurry out the door on the first day or second day. What to do? I suppose that since Passover cannot be moved, that if the person wishes to celebrate a 3 day festival that they move the 3 day festival to either before or after the Passover festival. That seems appropriate to me. A dead person, however, may be excused for missing Passover while they are dead.

I think the three days is supposed to symbolize the rebirth of Israel or of its mission. My understanding is that for Jews certain offerings at the temple could only be consumed for three days, after which the offerings had to be burned. Otherwise they'd go bad. To keep them from going bad they had to be either eaten or burnt up. This, however, takes on a shade of other meaning in the gospels, since Jesus represents Israel. Israel has been consumed by the nations, becoming an offering of peace for them. The three days, instead of representing an expiration date, symbolizes rebirth of Israel or of its mission (same thing to a Christian I suppose). Rather than doomed, Israel is being reborn like a phoenix. This interpretation is influenced by various bible stories such as Joseph's interpretation of dreams of the baker and cupbearer and the vision in Daniel involving "Time, times and a half time."

So it seems to me difficult to suggest that Jesus somehow fulfilled Passover or something like that. Quite the opposite, actually.
I'd agree with you, except in the sense that he is Israel offered as a passover lamb for the nations.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
A number of recent posts related to Jesus rising on Easter or the like made me realize that this would make Jesus kind of the opposite of one of the main ideas of Passover, which is ironic because Christians consider him to be the ultimate Passover lamb.

Let me explain: During Passover, Jews eat unleavened bread, called "matzah" in Hebrew. This is in memory of the bread that the Israelites took with them out of Egypt which didn't rise because they left hurriedly. You can probably already tell where I'm going with this...

The Israelites were hurriedly taken out of Egypt. This seems kind of strange because as they were in Egypt for so long, God couldn't wait a few hours more for them to make proper bread? There are many answers to this question, but the general idea is that it was necessary for the Israelites to leave in a hurry, and it was likewise necessary for the bread not to have had enough time to rise.

Jesus, on the other hand, is said to have risen after three days. In other words, he was in no real hurry, and he rose, just like the sort of bread that is not consumed on Passover.

So it seems to me difficult to suggest that Jesus somehow fulfilled Passover or something like that. Quite the opposite, actually.
I'm not sure how you are connecting the dots here.

God also seemed not to be in a hurry to the the Israelites until 10 plagues later. I'm not sure how one equals the other.

So, let me see how we do find the equality.

Israel had to take a lamb -
“Tell the whole community of Israel that each man is to take a lamb ...”
[Exodus 12:3]

Jesus is the Lamb - John saw Jesus coming toward him and said: “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” [John 1:29]

The lamb must be without defect - “The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect.” [Exodus 12:5]

Jesus was sinlessly perfect - He committed no sin and no deceit was found in His mouth. [1 Peter 2:22 and Isaiah 53:9]

Israel had to put blood on the doorframes -“They are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs.” [Exodus 12:7]

doorpost.gif

Jesus shed His blood to cover our sins - God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood. [Romans 3:25]

door_crs.gif


The Israelites would be spared from death while under the blood“The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you ...” - [Exodus 12:13]

Jesus’ blood covers our sins so that we shall not be condemned - We have been justified by His blood. [Romans 5:9] - In Him we have redemption through His blood. [Ephesians 1:7]

Israel was delivered out of slavery in Egypt - On that very day the Lord brought the Israelites out of Egypt. [Exodus 12:51] - Commemorate this day, the day you came out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery, because the Lord brought you out of it with a mighty hand. Eat nothing containing yeast. [Exodus 13:3]

Jesus gives spiritual deliverance from slavery to sin and the fear of death ... He too shared in their humanity so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death – that is, the devil – and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. [Hebrews 2:14-15] We were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. [Galatians 4:3]


Are there other things that aren't in the Passover that are presented elsewhere like the sacrifice of Issac? Sure... but that doesn't detract from our faith that Jesus is the Lamb of God.

hope this helps.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
but that doesn't detract from our faith that Jesus is the Lamb of God.
Isaiah 53:7 - the lamb goes silent to the slaughter
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth.
is contradicted by:

Matthew 27:46 - Jesus cries out in a loud voice on the cross
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).​
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
A number of recent posts related to Jesus rising on Easter or the like made me realize that this would make Jesus kind of the opposite of one of the main ideas of Passover, which is ironic because Christians consider him to be the ultimate Passover lamb.

Let me explain: During Passover, Jews eat unleavened bread, called "matzah" in Hebrew. This is in memory of the bread that the Israelites took with them out of Egypt which didn't rise because they left hurriedly. You can probably already tell where I'm going with this...

The Israelites were hurriedly taken out of Egypt. This seems kind of strange because as they were in Egypt for so long, God couldn't wait a few hours more for them to make proper bread? There are many answers to this question, but the general idea is that it was necessary for the Israelites to leave in a hurry, and it was likewise necessary for the bread not to have had enough time to rise.

Jesus, on the other hand, is said to have risen after three days. In other words, he was in no real hurry, and he rose, just like the sort of bread that is not consumed on Passover.

So it seems to me difficult to suggest that Jesus somehow fulfilled Passover or something like that. Quite the opposite, actually.

Jesus called Himself the bread from heaven and the unleavened bread at Passover symbolises Jesus in that way and also in the fact that it is unleavened, leaven being symbolic of sin or evil, and Jesus being without sin.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Isaiah 53:7 - the lamb goes silent to the slaughter
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth.
is contradicted by:

Matthew 27:46 - Jesus cries out in a loud voice on the cross
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).​

I think you are being too literal. If he had not done that you would be saying. "Look it says he would not open his mouth but he did open his mouth to have a drink."
That point of the lamb going silently to the slaughter and no opening it's mouth is that Jesus did not complain or make a case for His innocence to His accusers. His innocence was plain for all to see and it was up to the accusers to prove their accusations.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not sure how you are connecting the dots here.

God also seemed not to be in a hurry to the the Israelites until 10 plagues later. I'm not sure how one equals the other.
That's the thing, though. Jesus, according to the NT, didn't die any other day. He either died on Passover Eve or Passover itself. When come Passover, the Israelites were hurried. Jesus did not hurry when come Passover.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
That's the thing, though. Jesus, according to the NT, didn't die any other day. He either died on Passover Eve or Passover itself. When come Passover, the Israelites were hurried. Jesus did not hurry when come Passover.

Why would Jesus be the one to hurry?
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
No need to rush. Or is there?

I would
Love you ten years before the flood,
And you should, if you please, refuse
Til the conversion of the Jews.
My vegetable love should grow
Vaster than empires, and more slow.
An hundred years should go to praise
Thine eyes, and on thy forehead gaze;
Two hundred to admire each breast,
And thirty thousand to the rest;
An age at least to every part,
And the last age should show thy heart.
I would not love at lower rate,
For lady, you deserve this state.

But at my back I ever hear
Time’s winged chariot hurrying near…
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, the Passover Lamb was not in a hurry
Well, it's an animal. Where would it hurry off to? But actually, if you took the time to read Exodus, you'd see that the Israelites ate the lamb dressed to leave.
and the unleavened bread was not in a hurry
Well, it's an inanimate object. But Jesus taking his time to rise up from the dead stands in sharp contrast to the motif of the unleavened bread.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Well, it's an animal. Where would it hurry off to? But actually, if you took the time to read Exodus, you'd see that the Israelites ate the lamb dressed to leave.

Do you think that every detail of what happened has to relate to Jesus or Jesus is not the Passover Lamb to free us from our slavery to sin.

Well, it's an inanimate object. But Jesus taking his time to rise up from the dead stands in sharp contrast to the motif of the unleavened bread.

I already said that the symbolism of the unleavened bread is the bread from heaven (which Jesus said that He is------the real bread from heaven) and the fact that leaven symbolises sin and corruption while Jesus is sinless.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Do you think that every detail of what happened has to relate to Jesus or Jesus is not the Passover Lamb to free us from our slavery to sin.
I don't think any of it actually relates to Jesus. But from the Christian perspective, this is a core theme of Passover that stands in stark contrast to Jesusian Passoverian theology.
I already said that the symbolism of the unleavened bread is the bread from heaven (which Jesus said that He is------the real bread from heaven) and the fact that leaven symbolises sin and corruption while Jesus is sinless.
Why are you confusing unleavened bread and manna?
 

syo

Well-Known Member
A number of recent posts related to Jesus rising on Easter or the like made me realize that this would make Jesus kind of the opposite of one of the main ideas of Passover, which is ironic because Christians consider him to be the ultimate Passover lamb.

Let me explain: During Passover, Jews eat unleavened bread, called "matzah" in Hebrew. This is in memory of the bread that the Israelites took with them out of Egypt which didn't rise because they left hurriedly. You can probably already tell where I'm going with this...

The Israelites were hurriedly taken out of Egypt. This seems kind of strange because as they were in Egypt for so long, God couldn't wait a few hours more for them to make proper bread? There are many answers to this question, but the general idea is that it was necessary for the Israelites to leave in a hurry, and it was likewise necessary for the bread not to have had enough time to rise.

Jesus, on the other hand, is said to have risen after three days. In other words, he was in no real hurry, and he rose, just like the sort of bread that is not consumed on Passover.

So it seems to me difficult to suggest that Jesus somehow fulfilled Passover or something like that. Quite the opposite, actually.
You forget the second coming of Christ. ;)
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Jesus, on the other hand, is said to have risen after three days. In other words, he was in no real hurry, and he rose, just like the sort of bread that is not consumed on Passover.

So it seems to me difficult to suggest that Jesus somehow fulfilled Passover or something like that. Quite the opposite, actually
I had to check if it was in debate, discuss or funny forum

Debate it is

Creative idea it is

I could argue "They consume 'unrisen bread', this accentuates 'risen Jesus' even more".

Why: It's kind of hard to believe for many that 'Jesus rose from the grave', so to be aware, by once eating 'unrisen bread' makes it easier (mind you... not easy) to believe
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I had to check if it was in debate, discuss or funny forum

Debate it is

Creative idea it is

I could argue "They consume 'unrisen bread', this accentuates 'risen Jesus' even more".

Why: It's kind of hard to believe for many that 'Jesus rose from the grave', so to be aware, by once eating 'unrisen bread' makes it easier (mind you... not easy) to believe
Counter argument

Bread rises, and is still dead
not "the walking dead"
nor "the walking bread"

BUT
Jesus rises, and is full blown alive... assumedly
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Isaiah 53:7 - the lamb goes silent to the slaughter
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth.
is contradicted by:

Matthew 27:46 - Jesus cries out in a loud voice on the cross
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).​


He was quoting Psalm 22 on the cross, was he not? In Aramaic rather than Hebrew, not sure why that should be?

Also, "They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture" -(Psalm 22:18) is reflected in Matthew 27:35

So the inclusion of this detail in the Gospels was obviously meant to place the crucifixion in the context of Hebrew Scripture. Can we conclude from this that Matthew's Gospel was intended for a Jewish audience?

I think the despair on the cross is also intended to illustrate the humanity of Jesus, and that even he was capable of doubt.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I'd agree with you, except in the sense that he is Israel offered as a passover lamb for the nations.

Deut 12:31
31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God; for every abomination to the LORD, which He hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters do they burn in the fire to their gods.

Jer 19:4-6
4 because they have forsaken Me, and have estranged this place, and have offered in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah; and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
5 and have built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons in the fire for burnt-offerings unto Baal; which I commanded not, nor spoke it, neither came it into My mind.
6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Topheth, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter;


Psa 106:36-38
36 And they served their idols, which became a snare unto them;
37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto demons,
38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan;
and the land was polluted with blood.

Christians be like: Yeah but like now human sacrifice is cool.
Funny how God did a 180 on that.
 
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