Jesus and temptation.

[Harel13]

I don't believe that to be the case.

It's okay, I never expected you to agree. No Christian that I've gone over with them on this point has ever conceded. Like I said, the Christian premise is that Jesus could do whatever he wanted because he's Jesus.

 

[Redemptionsong]

"Behold, He that keepeth Israel doth neither slumber nor sleep."

But for mortals like me, it's time to retire for the night!

 

[Harel13]

It's interesting to note that several sages that thought Bar-Kochva was the messiah, still rebuked him when they thought he was doing things wrong. So in Jewish terms, not even the messiah is above the law.

 

[Rival]

But for mortals like me, it's time to retire for the night!

Good night. Stay safe.

 

[Brian2]

Considering over a decade of his life is missing, he's had well over 10 years to sin. But here are some:

-Broke the Sabbath.
-Dishonoured his parents.
-Created violence (he made a scourge and started flailing it around in a market).
-He taught his disciples to disregard the law by allowing them to break it by picking grain on the Sabbath.
-He called people names ('You brood of vipers').
-He allowed himself to be killed (if he knew he were on a suicide mission he should have stopped, but he let it happen and there was no coercion).
-According to some Jewish beliefs, he practiced black magic.

Broke the Sabbath by walking in the fields and picking the God given food there to eat when hungry.
He also healed people on the Sabbath.
Is calling you mother a woman dishonouring?
Forcing money changers and other stall holders out of the Temple precincts because it is a house of prayer and they had made it a den of theives.
He was honest about the religious leaders of His day. One of he works of the Messiah is to judge His people.
Allowing Himself to be killed as part of God's will for Him sounds better than not doing God's will.
And even you Jews agree that Jesus was a worker of miracles but attribute that to Satan instead of to God, and was there any evidence of sorcery?

 

[Rival]

Broke the Sabbath by walking in the fields and picking the God given food there to eat when hungry.

He broke the Sabbath. There would have been food available.

He also healed people on the Sabbath.

He broke the Sabbath. Unless these people were about to die, it's lawbreaking.

Is calling you mother a woman dishonouring?

Have you ever addressed your mother as 'Woman!'

Forcing money changers and other stall holders out of the Temple precincts because it is a house of prayer and they had made it a den of theives.

He flipped tables and made a scourge. He threw a public temper tantrum. There are much more grown-up ways to go about anger like this. And as we've been through already here, it's sinful.

He was honest about the religious leaders of His day. One of he works of the Messiah is to judge His people.

He was honest about his views of the religious leaders of his day. I'd be surprised if you actually knew anything about them beyond what your Christian Scriptures told you.

Allowing Himself to be killed as part of God's will for Him sounds better than not doing God's will.

Except it wasn't G-d's will. If one is about to be killed one has a duty to try preserve one's life.

And even you Jews agree that Jesus was a worker of miracles but attribute that to Satan instead of to God, and was there any evidence of sorcery?

I'm not a Jew. Miracles mean nothing; even false prophets can work miracles. Pharaoh's magicians worked magic tricks.

 

[Brian2]

He broke the Sabbath. There would have been food available.

In the fields there was food available on the plants. His disciples were not breaking the Law of Moses, they were however breaking the interpretation of it by the religious leaders of the day.

He broke the Sabbath. Unless these people were about to die, it's lawbreaking.

So working in a hospital as a doctor or nurse is against the Sabbath on a Saturday. As Jesus said, "Is it wrong to do good on the Sabbath?" and He pointed out to them that even they would pull their animal out of a pit on the Sabbath.

Have you ever addressed your mother as 'Woman!'

I don't think I have, but that does not make what Jesus said wrong.

He flipped tables and made a scourge. He threw a public temper tantrum. There are much more grown-up ways to go about anger like this. And as we've been through already here, it's sinful.

Jesus had been to the Temple on many occasions and seen the same thing no doubt. He was not throwing a tantrum, it was a calculated thing, and it took time to make a whip. This was judgement of the leaders and people and seems to have been calculated to work up the anger of the leaders against Him on this Sabbath before He was to be killed.

He was honest about

his views of the religious leaders of his day. I'd be surprised if you actually knew anything about them beyond what your Christian Scriptures told you.

I have heard some good things about them, but I suppose you do not believe what the Gospels say about them.

Except it wasn't G-d's will. If one is about to be killed one has a duty to try preserve one's life.

Jesus had said to His disciples that He would be suffer and be killed and rise from the dead in the next few days. If He knew what would happen then it could be said that He was a prophet.
People who heroically allow themselves to be tortured and killed for the sake of their country or friends are usually considered heroes. Not Jesus.

I am not a Jew. Miracles mean nothing; even false prophets can work miracles. Pharaoh's magicians worked magic tricks.

No false prophets or magicians worked the miracles that Jesus did, but if you do not believe He did those things then you do not.

 

[Rival]

In the fields there was food available on the plants. His disciples were not breaking the Law of Moses, they were however breaking the interpretation of it by the religious leaders of the day.

So now you know the Torah better than the Jews who studied and continue to study it? I doubt that.

So working in a hospital as a doctor or nurse is against the Sabbath on a Saturday. As Jesus said, "Is it wrong to do good on the Sabbath?" and He pointed out to them that even they would pull their animal out of a pit on the Sabbath.

Yes, it is. There are complex Shabbat rules that you don't seem to understand; hence your confusion over being told what Jesus did is problematic.

I don't think I have, but that does not make what Jesus said wrong.

Yes, it does. It is rude to address anyone this way, let alone one's parents. Stop acting daft; you know this. Jesus called his mother 'Woman!'

Jesus had been to the Temple on many occasions and seen the same thing no doubt. He was not throwing a tantrum, it was a calculated thing, and it took time to make a whip. This was judgement of the leaders and people and seems to have been calculated to work up the anger of the leaders against Him on this Sabbath before He was to be killed.

This was not a responsible way to react to it.

I have heard some good things about them, but I suppose you do not believe what the Gospels say about them.

Of course I don't.

Jesus had said to His disciples that He would be suffer and be killed and rise from the dead in the next few days. If He knew what would happen then it could be said that He was a prophet.
People who heroically allow themselves to be tortured and killed for the sake of their country or friends are usually considered heroes. Not Jesus.

He was on a suicide mission. That's a sin. That's never considered heroic unless the circumstances are extremely rare. Jesus was in no immediate danger; no-one was threatening his life. There was no reason for him to do this other than his own grandiose delusion.

No false prophets or magicians worked the miracles that Jesus did, but if you do not believe He did those things then you do not.

Miracles are not part of what the Messiah is supposed to do in order to qualify as the Messiah. It's something he may do, but it's not a requirement. So it doesn't matter how many he did, they are completely irrelevant.

 

[MichaelleahciM]

So one of the claimed new teachings of jesus is that the mere thought of a bad deed is sin in itself if i am not mistaken.

"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Now jesus has experienced temptation, this point is used in explaining how jesus can understand us better.
My problem is how can jesus go through temptation without having desire (intent).

For temptation to exist, one must have even little bit of desire that he is trying to resist, else it is not temptation?

Thus jesus as one who went through temptations, experienced it, had to desire it a bit so he can resist and experience temptation.

But then it means jesus sinned?
In general I see no problem in jesus sinning, as later he emptied himself and became fully holy, I see it as being cleansed from all sins. Thus he becomes the spotless lamb. Still, many Christians try to defend the point that jesus never sinned, no even as a 14 years old healthy sexually teenager etc.... So did he experience human life or not??

Feel free to just say whatever comes to mind... god bless.

For those who say Jesus was God, the doctrine of the trinity comes to mind, when on Gods green earth, if jesus was God, would even need to afflicted with temptation, I mean, wasn't he God? Just doesn't wash. Also, why would jesus require baptism?

 

[Brian2]

For those who say Jesus was God, the doctrine of the trinity comes to mind, when on Gods green earth, if jesus was God, would even need to afflicted with temptation, I mean, wasn't he God? Just doesn't wash. Also, why would jesus require baptism?

Jesus was a man for the sake of teaching and offering His life for us and bringing in the New Covenant with the Jews and then for all of humanity. Temptation comes along with being human and by not sinning, Jesus showed His righteousness and who He is and His worthiness to be sacrificed as the Lamb without blemish.
Jesus did not require John's Baptism of repentance as John said to Jesus during Jesus' Baptism.
Matt 3:14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptised by You, and do You come to me?” 15“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness in this way.” Then John permitted Him........
It was then that He was baptised with the Holy Spirit and God spoke from heaven of Jesus being His Son whom He love and was pleased with.

 

[Roses]

Jesus attracted followers due to his charismatic personality, but I doubt he was any sort of god or any more perfect than the rest of us.

 

[Brian2]

So now you know the Torah better than the Jews who studied and continue to study it? I doubt that.

Yes, it is. There are complex Shabbat rules that you don't seem to understand; hence your confusion over being told what Jesus did is problematic.

It is easy to point out our guilt when it comes to breaking the letter of the Law, but that can go way too far because sin in regard the law does not always mean guilt before God.

Yes, it does. It is rude to address anyone this way, let alone one's parents. Stop acting daft; you know this. Jesus called his mother 'Woman!'

The Greek word used in John's gospel for woman is a respectful word meaning something like ma'am or lady but also it seems that the 2 times Jesus did this in the gospels it can be seen as hinting that Mary was the new Eve whose seed would crush the head of the snake.

This was not a responsible way to react to it.

How do you know that?

He was on a suicide mission. That's a sin. That's never considered heroic unless the circumstances are extremely rare. Jesus was in no immediate danger; no-one was threatening his life. There was no reason for him to do this other than his own grandiose delusion.

Jesus circumstances were rare. He had been told by His Father, the Jewish God to do it.
It was not as if He was going to kill the President with a suicide vest of something, all He was doing was miracles and speaking the words His Father had given Him to speak and He was grabbed by the religious leaders of His day and sentenced by the Sanhedrin to death for blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God, something the Hebrew scriptures tell us about the Messiah. It seems they did not like the was Jesus was using it, as if He actually really was the Son of God.

Miracles are not part of what the Messiah is supposed to do in order to qualify as the Messiah. It's something he may do, but it's not a requirement. So it doesn't matter how many he did, they are completely irrelevant.

They are relevant if you believe that Jesus did them and see the types of miracles He did perform and His control over nature. One of His last miracles was rising from the dead. But I guess you do not believe that even if it can be seen to be part of the work of the Messiah in the Hebrew scriptures.
How about these scriptures.
Isa 35:4 Say to those with anxious hearts: “Be strong, do not fear! Behold, your God will come with vengeance. With divine retribution He will come to save you.” 5Then the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. 6Then the lame will leap like a deer and the mute tongue will shout for joy.
Isa 42:4 Say to those with anxious hearts: “Be strong, do not fear! Behold, your God will come with vengeance. With divine retribution He will come to save you.” 5Then the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. 6Then the lame will leap like a deer and the mute tongue will shout for joy.
or Isa 61:1-3

 

[Brian2]

Jesus attracted followers due to his charismatic personality, but I doubt he was any sort of god or any more perfect than the rest of us.

It's a matter of belief, it cannot be proven.

 

[MichaelleahciM]

Jesus was a man for the sake of teaching and offering His life for us and bringing in the New Covenant with the Jews and then for all of humanity. Temptation comes along with being human and by not sinning, Jesus showed His righteousness and who He is and His worthiness to be sacrificed as the Lamb without blemish.
Jesus did not require John's Baptism of repentance as John said to Jesus during Jesus' Baptism.
Matt 3:14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptised by You, and do You come to me?” 15“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness in this way.” Then John permitted Him........
It was then that He was baptised with the Holy Spirit and God spoke from heaven of Jesus being His Son whom He love and was pleased with.

There are those who say Jesus was literally God, God on Earth, God can do anything, everything is here of God, Such as be in multiple form at the same time, God in heaven, on Earth and Holy Spirit, God is above all, being common human was not Jesus, Jesus would have been God in the form of a human that God created, by, in the science of then, Woman had no part of birth except as a fertile field, and God planted His seed into a female human. So Jesus would not be a mere human being and would have been above simple temptation and the 40 days he was gone, he was tempted by the devil !, who was Gods creation also! None of this can be true. People can speak gibberish and say, because I say so, doesn't make any of it plausible.

Judaism doesn't have Baptism, John the Baptist wasn't a Christian, at best he believed Jesus was the Mashiach. But lets look into what John the 'Baptist' truly did and what it was actually called and it wasn't Baptist.
"Although the term "baptism" is not used to describe the Jewish rituals, the purification rites in Jewish law and tradition, called tvilah, have some similarity to baptism, The tvilah is the act of immersion in natural sourced water, called a mikva In the Jewish Bible and other Jewish texts, immersion in water for ritual purification was established for restoration to a condition of "ritual purity" in specific circumstances. For example, Jews who (according to the Law of Moses) became ritually defiled by contact with a corpse had to use the mikvah before being allowed to participate in the Holy Temple. Immersion is required for converts to Judaism as part of their conversion. Immersion in the mikvah represents a change in status in regards to purification, restoration, and qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community, ensuring that the cleansed person will not impose uncleanness on property or its owners. It did not become customary, however, to immerse converts to Judaism until after the Babylonian Captivity.This change of status by the mikvah could be obtained repeatedly"

So I always revert back to Jewish law and teachings for the only understanding of Jesus, Jesus was hoped to be the Mashiach, a mere mortal who was to liberate the Jews by battle and create a time of peace for only the Jews. Jesus was a Rabi of the Jewish faith as he taught. He was a devote defender of the Torah and it's laws and railed against what he felt was defilement of the Temple by money changers and others. Jesus utterly failed to complete all that was required by Jewish Prophets as to what the Mashiach must accomplish in his one life time. These facts negate all that Christians profess about Jesus. Jesus can only be understood by Jewish ritual and law and the Torah. He was by birth a Jew and loved his Tribal faith and never wanted to see it altered which is why he defended the purity of the faith by his actions in the Temple and how he tried to show his fellow Jews how to deal passively with Roman soldiers in their daily life.