Jesus and temptation.

[Harel13]

Start calling whole groups of people 'broods of vipers' and see what happens.

If they're Slytherins, I think they would take it as a compliment.

 

[Redemptionsong]

All of them?

Go around any street vendor with a whip, smashing things, and see what happens.

Start calling whole groups of people 'broods of vipers' and see what happens.

You should be careful, Rival, that you don't end up shooting yourself in the foot! The very source of Jesus' words are the Hebrew Scriptures, words inspired by the LORD.

In Deuteronomy 32:15 [The Song of Moses], it says, 'But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness ; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.'
Deut. 32:31-33, 'For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
For their vine is the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah; their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter: Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.'

Psalm 58:3, 4. 'The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppest her ear;'

And was the anger of God over the temple not justified?

Isaiah 56:7. 'for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.'
Jeremiah 7:11. 'Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.'

Look familiar?

 

[Rival]

In Deuteronomy 32:15 [The Song of Moses], it says, 'But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness ; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.'
Deut. 32:31-33, 'For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
For their vine is the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah; their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter: Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.'

Psalm 58:3, 4. 'The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppest her ear;'

You do realise this is poetry, right?

And was the anger of God over the temple not justified?

Yes, but G-d could have dealt with that. A man going around with a whip and turning tables over is called a sinner. I dare you to go into any public place and start knocking things over and whipping things. Righteous anger or not, you'll be arrested. It's not good behaviour.

 

[Redemptionsong]

You do realise this is poetry, right?


Yes, but G-d could have dealt with that. A man going around with a whip and turning tables over is called a sinner. I dare you to go into any public place and start knocking things over and whipping things. Righteous anger or not, you'll be arrested. It's not good behaviour.

So, has inspired scripture been down-graded to uninspired poetry? Does prose speak more honestly than poetry? Is poetry not the tool of a prophet?

IMO, God did deal with the traders in the temple. No physical harm came to the traders, but they needed to know how angry God was with their desecration of the temple. 'For mine house shall be called a house of prayer.'

 

[Rival]

So, has inspired scripture been down-graded to uninspired poetry? Does prose speak more honestly than poetry? Is poetry not the tool of a prophet?

There's this thing called poetic license.

IMO, God did deal with the traders in the temple. No physical harm came to the traders, but they needed to know how angry God was with their desecration of the temple. 'For mine house shall be called a house of prayer.'

This only 'works' as you think Jesus is a god (and I'm not sure G-d would have dealt with it like this, is any case). If you believe he was just a man, all that happened here is a bloke threw a temper tantrum with a homemade scourge in public. No matter how you frame it, it's not a good look and it's sinful.

Also, you still haven't addressed Shabbat breaking, dishonouring parents and deriding foreigners.

 

[Harel13]

Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.'

@Rival don't tell me you don't think of fantasy worlds when you see the word 'Taninim' translated as 'dragons' (I've even seen 'basilisks' in the past)!

 

[Rival]

@Rival don't tell me you don't think of fantasy worlds when you see the word 'Taninim' translated as 'dragons' (I've even seen 'basilisks' in the past)!

I've never really thought about it. I don't know what the best translation for this word is, honestly.

 

[Harel13]

I've never really thought about it. I don't know what the best translation for this word is, honestly.

Dinosaurs!

 

[Rival]

Dinosaurs!

Dragons are way more interesting.

 

[Redemptionsong]

There's this thing called poetic license.


This only 'works' as you think Jesus is a god (and I'm not sure G-d would have dealt with it like this, is any case). If you believe he was just a man, all that happened here is a bloke threw a temper tantrum with a homemade scourge in public. No matter how you frame it, it's not a good look and it's sinful.

Also, you still haven't addressed Shabbat breaking, dishonouring parents and deriding foreigners.

Even if you don't believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, you can't blame any ardent Jew for not wanting to see the temple treated like a market place.
The spiritual significance for Jesus is important. He, as God's chosen temple, was going to make it clear that he would remain a house of prayer.

 

[Harel13]

Dragons are way more interesting.

True, but occasionally you have to throw a bone to the scientific, rational mob.

 

[Rival]

Even if you don't believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, you can't blame any ardent Jew for wanting to see the temple treated like a market place.
The spiritual significance for Jesus is important. He, as God's chosen temple, was going to make it clear that he would remain a house of prayer.

If I don't like the way something is being done, I don't throw a temper tantrum and start hurling tables all over. I don't make a whip (I wouldn't have to; I already own one) and start whipping the crap out of the merchandise. I'd use diplomacy and tact.

 

[Harel13]

you can't blame any ardent Jew for not wanting to see the temple treated like a market place.

There's wanting something and then there's how you choose to get what you want. The path can be either legal or illegal, and frankly, ask anyone with some basic understanding of Jewish court proceedings, and you'll see that what he did was unjust.

 

[Harel13]

Now I've allowed myself to be dragged back into this debate. *sigh*...

 

[Rival]

Now I've allowed myself to be dragged back into this debate. *sigh*...

It's better than flipping tables and hurling insults at people

 

[Redemptionsong]

If I don't like the way something is being done, I don't throw a temper tantrum and start hurling tables all over. I don't make a whip (I wouldn't have to; I already own one) and start whipping the crap out of the merchandise. I'd use diplomacy and tact.

There's no indication of any loss of control. Jesus' anger is real, and in the spiritual world in which Jesus Christ walks, there's a place for harsh rebuke. When Jesus confronted demons, he rebuked them in plain but uncompromising language.

 

[Harel13]

There's no indication of any loss of control. Jesus' anger is real, and in the spiritual world in which Jesus Christ walks, there's a place for harsh rebuke. When Jesus confronted demons, he rebuked them in plain but uncompromising language.

this is how it'll go:

Me: Jesus did x, y, z and that's clearly against Jewish law!
Christian RFer: NO YOU ARE WRONG because: Jesus fulfilled the law/Pharisees totally invented that stuff/whatever Jesus did was alright because he's Jesus.

I saw this coming. Dang, I should have a new book of prophecy written and added to the Tanach. It'll be called the Book of Harelaiah.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Has Gabriel gone to sleep?!

 

[Harel13]

Has Gabriel gone to sleep?!

"Behold, He that keepeth Israel doth neither slumber nor sleep."

 

[Redemptionsong]

There's wanting something and then there's how you choose to get what you want. The path can be either legal or illegal, and frankly, ask anyone with some basic understanding of Jewish court proceedings, and you'll see that what he did was unjust.

I don't believe that to be the case. As was shown through the scriptural references, Jesus was fulfilling God's word.