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Featured Jesus and Satan as "brothers"

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by sealchan, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Well, either one is placed on the right or the left. I don't think there is an up and down with respect to Matthew 25:33. As for Matthew 13, the choice is between tare and wheat. The tares consider themselves wheat, yet when they get placed with the "hypocrites" there will be "weeping" (Matthew 25:51) & (Matthew 13:42).
     
  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Your presumption is of course your own presumption. The Good Samaritan was a brother because he helped the stranger. The others, the Jews, who walked by, were not his brothers. As for those "born again"/"born of God", they cannot sin (1 John 3:9). As for sons of Paul, a man of lawlessness (Romans 7:6), a disciple of Satan, of course they will sin (1 John 3:8). Do they sin, or is it the evil within them (Romans 7:17-21)? I think the destination is the same (Matthew 7:13).
     
  3. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    If I may interject a few comments...

    I agree with sealchan that it would have been impossible for Adam to have sinned on purpose when he was unable to distinguish between good and evil.

    I disagree with URAVIP2ME that it was "clear" to Adam that what he did was "an evil/bad thing to do." Adam had been told not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam disobeyed and was made to pay the consequences for his disobedience. But how did Adam know that "disobedience" was "an evil/bad thing to do"? He had God telling him not to eat the fruit and someone else telling him that he would become like God if he ate it. That must have been pretty tempting. Adam could disobey without being able to distinguish between right and wrong, but he had no way of knowing that disobedience to God was "wrong" until after He ate the forbidden fruit.

    I further agree with sealchan that there was apparently a reason why the tree was named "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." It wasn't just some random name that God picked out of the blue. It described what the fruit of the tree contained. If anything is "clear," it's that just prior to casting Adam and Eve out of the Garden, God says, "The man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil." He said that after Adam ate the fruit, not when He he first placed Adam and Eve in the Garden.
     
    #23 Katzpur, Oct 9, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  4. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Well seeing that Jesus is not a created being and Satan is a created being.
     
  5. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    You didn't finish your sentence.
     
  6. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Satan can't repent. He has no sacrifice.

    Jesus died for the children of men; not angels.
     
  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    I believe that I did. If I had anything more to say, I would haved said so.
     
    #27 Faithofchristian, Oct 10, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  8. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Okay, well, maybe it's just that you don't know what a complete sentence is. "Well seeing that Jesus is not a created being and Satan is a created being," is not a complete sentence. But if you want to leave it at that, okay. Just don't expect people to know what you're talking about.
     
  9. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    What is so hard to understand, that Jesus is not a created being and Satan is a created being.
    What so hard about that.
     
  10. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    You're evidently missing my point. If I were to say, "Well, seeing that I am LDS and you are not" what would that tell you?

    Here's something I'd like you to think about...

    In John 20:17, Jesus appeared to Mary near the tomb where He'd been laid three days earlier and when she approached Him, said, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

    He refers to God as His own Father, but also as Mary's Father. Whenever He prayed, He addressed His prayers to His Father, and then in teaching us how to pray (in Matthew 6:9), He told us to begin by addressing, "Our Father which art in heaven." His Father and our Father are one and the same. Children of the same father and brothers and sisters, even if one of them is "a created being" and one is "not a created being." That's simply a matter of fact.
     
    #30 Katzpur, Oct 10, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  11. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    As for you being a LDS, it's not for me to judge anyone base on what Religion they are.
    But to judge righteous judgement.

    What does it mean, to judge righteous judgement?

    So when Jesus prayed what was Jesus showing?
    And when Jesus said touch me not for I have not sended to my father, What was Jesus reavling.

    Your like alot of Christians that have no idea what Jesus was doing when Jesus was praying.
    Seeing that Jesus is God the Father in the flesh and blood body.
    Surely Jesus was not praying to himself.
    So what was Jesus doing when he was praying.

    As a Christian, Jesus sets forth the example that I am to follow,
    When Jesus was praying Jesus was giving by example how I am to pray to the Father.

    Now as for Jesus saying to Mary, touch me not for I have not sended to my Father.

    How does this work, How does Jesus ascend to the Father, If Jesus is the Father.
    Have you any idea as to how this will work?

    Why Did Jesus Say My Father Is Greater than I? In John 14:28
    “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come againunto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

    How does this work, How is the Father greater than Jesus, seeing that Jesus is the Father?

    Let's see if you can figure this out. It's quite easy and simple to figure it out ?

    But I would like your input, Why would Jesus say that the Father is greater, seeing that Jesus is the Father.
    How does this work ?
     
    #31 Faithofchristian, Oct 10, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  12. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Well, for starters, you didn't bother actually commenting on what my post was about, i.e. our relationship to Jesus and to "Our Father." I had hoped you'd do that at the very least. Beyond that, if you believe that Jesus is His own Father, we really don't even have enough common ground on which to continue this conversation.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    To answer your question, Jesus is the Son of God, But yet Jesus is God himself, So how does this work.
    How can Jesus be the Son of God, But yet be God himself, How exactly does this work?
     
    #33 Faithofchristian, Oct 10, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  14. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Do you sincerely want my opinion, or are you just looking for a good argument?
     
  15. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    To me, God's ' do not eat ' Law is the meaning of God's tree of knowledge of good and evil/bad.
    God as Lawgiver had the knowledge of the bad/evil consequences of breaking His ' do not eat ' Law.
    By Adam breaking God's Law, then that was as if Adam was taking the Law out of God's hands and placing the Law into man's hands. Adam set up People Rule as being superior to God Rule.
    The only way it can be proven who can govern best is to let enough time go by (give a person enough rope) and see who governs best. Whose Law can end wars and bring Peace on Earth, who can eliminate sin and death.

    Ezekiel 28:13-19 shows that Satan started out with perfection (verse 15) but Satan allowed his angelic perfection to go to the point that he wants us people to worship him over the God of the Bible.
    As James 1:13-15 brings out that everyone is draws out by his own desires.
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I am wondering why you say Eve was given ' different ' information because Genesis 2:17 applies to both.
    I find Eve's iformation answered the serpent correctly at Genesis 3:2-3.

    Even King David and King Solomon made moral mistakes, but like King Manasseh they repented.
    The moral mistakes was going against what was already in God's moral law.
    So, making mistakes is due to our inherited imperfection from father Adam and Not from God.
    Jesus will undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon the human race.
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Right, I find that God was Law Giver at Genesis 2:17 in that God was knowing good and evil/bad.
    God knew what was good or what was evil/bad for mankind.
    Eating (stealing) from God's tree was evil/bad. That carried the told death penalty: You eat, you die.
    So, to me it is only natural that 'after' Adam ate that Adam would decide what was good or bad in his (man's) eyes.
    The problem is what man has set up as being evil/bad has Not brought Peace on Earth, but wars, etc.
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find according to Revelation 3:14 B that Jesus is a created Son of God.
    Jesus being God's ' firstborn ' in the heavens - Colossians 1:15.
    God is Not first born, but from everlasting as per Psalms 90:2
    So, only God was before the beginning, and Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
    God sent the heavenly pre-human created Jesus to Earth from Heaven.
     
  19. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    What changed, do you think, between the last line of Genesis 2 and Genesis 3:10? By your accounting Adam didn't undergo any change in knowledge between those two times.

    In whose name has war been fought throughout the centuries? In whose name has genocide, persecution, murder and rape been justified?

    So what are the lessons of time? Or are we still holding out hope for the real truths to be proven?
     
  20. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    The serpent gave Eve another notion to consider. Now Adam was right there but Eve was the one who took the initiative.

    Your standard of morality is interesting...somehow Adam is responsible for your and my actions. Adam didn't repent? Or might not his punishment be enough for God?

    Is this a model for how you would educate a child? If you tell them what is not right to do but they do it anyway, would you banish them permanently and see all of their offspring as sharing in the guilt of their action?
     
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