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Featured Jesus and Satan as "brothers"

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by sealchan, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    I saw an article explaining that Jesus and Satan, being both created at the beginning, are believed to be spiritual brothers in the Latter-Day Saints church.

    I like this idea because it blends in with Genesis well and the conflict of brothers that is ever-present in that narrative...even in Exodus.

    Certainly they fight like brothers.

    Any other traditions or myths out there that also look at this pairing of the one who chooses good and suffering and his brother who chooses self and satisfaction?
     
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  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Try Cain and Able. Try Jacob and Essau/Edom. Try Judah/David/Yeshua, and Benjamin/king Saul/Paul. Try the righteous, versus the sinner.
     
  3. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Can the sinner be redeemed?
     
  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The sinner may repent, then what is he, as a "saved" "Christian" repenting of?
     
  5. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Of being stubborn against the face of the truth of reality and his or her own heart.

    The more so one is stubborn, the more so is their repentance rewarded. If Satan repented would that make for a cosmic party like no other?
     
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    As any parent who has sons, God had among many two (2) sons.
    Out of those particular two sons:
    * One Son turned out good aka Jesus.
    * One son turned out bad aka Satan.
    So, yes then I find Jesus and Satan are brothers.
    The ' good ' Son wins out as per Genesis 3:15.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Even the ' righteous ' are still sinners, but they are repentant sinners.
    The resurrection according to Acts of the Apostles 24:15 includes both the righteous and unrighteous.
    Verse 15 does Not include the wicked because the wicked are ' destroyed forever ' as per Psalms 92:7.
    So, I find it is Not the righteous versus the sinner, but the righteous and unrighteous versus the wicked.
    The figurative humble ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:37-40 are counted as righteous although still sinners.
    Not deliberate, intentional, premeditated sinners, but sinners just through inheritance from sinning father Adam.
     
  8. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Can Satan still repent? If he can choose bad, can he not change his mind?
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find, like Adam, Satan could only sin on purpose. So, No, Satan can Not still repent.
    Since we inherited sinful imperfection from father Adam we can sin by mistake, by accident, Not on purpose.
    Satan and his demonic angels deliberately chose bad and they are beyond repentance, beyond reform.
    - James 1:13-15.
    Jesus died for us, Not for them. Those devils are Not part of the ' many ' of Matthew 20:28.
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Sinners are not sons of Adam, but sons of the devil (1 John 3:8). One born of God does not practice sin (1 John 3:9). Those considered righteous Matthew 25:37-40, are considered righteous because of their works, such as feeding the hungry, etc.
     
  11. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Not knowing good from evil how could Adam have sinned "on purpose"?

    What was Satan's sin that he couldn't have a change of heart?

    Who on this earth is so far gone that they could not be saved?

    In the Mahabharata we have Krishna trying to help Duryodhana and Karna make "the right choice"...but he fails. I assume that Jesus has a similar limited ability to influence his angelic brother Satan. But why not God?
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I wonder why one would say Adam did Not know good from evil because to me what is written at Genesis 2:17 is clear that to steal from God's one-and-only tree was an evil/bad thing to do.
    By God saying Not to eat from that one tree was as if God put up a No trespassing sign on His tree.
    So, to me Adam did know, was told, Not to eat from God's tree before he broke God's Law.

    Like Adam, Satan was created with No imperfection toward wrongdoing.
    They both started out righteous with leanings toward being upright.
    They would have to deliberately turn their backs on God to do wrong.
    They could only disobey God if they willfully chose to do so.
    Whereas, on the other hand, we Not having such perfection, can sin by mistake, by accident.
    As far as who on this earth is so far gone.... would be people who do Not want to repent.
    We are all given two (2) choices at 2 Peter 3:9 to ' repent ' or ' perish ' ( be destroyed )
    Those who commit the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32 are beyond repenting, beyond reform.
    So, since we all have free-will choices then we are all free to act responsibly toward God.
     
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find at Matthew 25:40 the ' sheep' are considered as righteous because of their works toward -> Jesus' brothers.
    So, it is Not feeding, etc. just anyone, but those whom Jesus considers as his ' spiritual ' brothers alive on Earth at this coming ' time of separation ' on Earth.

    The devil did Not give life, birth, to mankind. We all come from father Adam who fathered us ' after ' he sinned.
    So, Adam, Not Satan, passed down to us his (Adam's) acquired imperfection leaning toward wrongdoing.
    That is why, No matter how hard we try, we can Not stop accidently sinning. We all sin by mistake.
     
  14. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    So what is the meaning of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? What effect does eating the fruit from that tree have in your view?

    How do you then explain why anyone in God's good creation, would "turn their backs on God"?

    I think your philosophy of the state of mind of Adam and Satan regarding "no imperfection toward wrong-doing" is a big assumption on your part. Can you demonstrate the validity of that assumption?
     
  15. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    I find this is another unsupportable psychology...that one is either evil or good, a sinner or righteous...no in-between. That simply does not stand up to experience.
     
  16. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Let's see if we can come to a Biblically un-ambiguous and experientially-verifiable understanding of the nature of sin and moral action.

    My bet is that this is not possible and that, furthermore, the author's of the Bible bring us closest to God when they show us just how ambiguous that boundary between good and evil is.
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Repenting of any wrongdoing. What is wrong in God's eyes such as listed at Galatians 5:19-22.
    Remember Matthew 24:13 because one can fall away. The one who endures to the end is: saved.
    Saved/ delivered/ rescued through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.
    Saved/ delivered/ rescued to be part of calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    To me, being create with free-will choices means we can all choose to act responsibly toward God or not.
     
  19. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and I think the story of Adam and Eve and The Fall is all about the nature of free will and knowledge. The big clue is that the tree is of the knowledge of good and evil and eating of it changes one's awareness. Eve is given different information from different sources but does not have the judgment to discern who can be trusted. Her disobedience is, naturally, mitigated somewhat by her ignorance. Again not entirely of course. Having the tree be the source of the knowledge of good and evil separates that knowledge from what Eve had in her possession when she made her decision.

    Practically speaking we almost always make our choices with some level of knowledge of what is right or wrong but we also have certain paths laid out for us in our life. Sometimes what we want does not have a perfectly justifiable path. The act of disobedience cannot be fairly seen to be fully known. It should be seen as partially known. So the consequence is earned even if it is a bit more severe. This is the nature of reality unmitigated by a parent to protect the child. Ignorance is something we cannot avoid but must negotiate...somewhere along the way we will make moral mistakes.

    IMO this conforms to the experience that all people have whether believers or non-believers and as such is the basis for the correct understanding of this story.
     
  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Sin is "transgression of the Law". As for Matthew 24:13, "endure" what? The "false prophets" and "lawlessness" of Matthew 24:11-12?

    King James Bible 1 John 3:4
    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    As for Paul and his Galatians 5:19-22, Paul serves the law of sin with his flesh (Romans 7:25).
     
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