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Featured Jesus and Pantheism

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. FooYang

    FooYang Active Member

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    So by this do you just mean the Universe?
     
  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    venture inward


    it would seem so; since the body is considered a mound of clay, armegeddon it


    a kingdom, the territory subject to the rule of a king


    you are the light of the world, a city set on a hill


    can't you see the downtown lights?


    if the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake.


     
  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    uni = 1
    verse ="to turn, turn back, be turned; convert, transform, translate; be changed" (from PIE root *wer-(2) "to turn, bend").
     
  4. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Well. Kingdom of God is....

    Judaism: The term Messianic Age refers to the Kingdom of God on earth that will arise after the coming of the MESSIAH.
    Christianity: (Matthew 6:33; Mark 1:14, 15; Luke 4:43) = “kingdom of Christ” (Matthew 13:41; 20:21) = “kingdom of Christ and of God” (Ephesians 5:5) = “kingdom of David” (Mark 11:10) = “the kingdom” (Matthew 8:12; 13:19) = “kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 3:2; 4:17; 13:41), all denote the same thing under different aspects, viz.: (1) Christ’s mediatorial authority, or his rule on the earth; (2) the blessings and advantages of all kinds that flow from this rule; (3) the subjects of this kingdom taken collectively, or the Church.

    Thats according to Encyclopaedias of the respective religions. What ever you may wish to adopt its your wish.

    1. If you find Jesus saying that "Kingdom of God comes form within" that means its inside you, its all you, your mind, your actions etc, he is not saying its within him, its within you. YOU.

    2. Pantheism is when everything is God or manifestations of God. Every tree, every animal. There is no way this could mean the same.

    3. If you believe by saying "the father is in me" it means he is the father himself, or if you believe the father comes out from himself, or even if you believe that the fathers message comes through him, whatever you wish to believe, none of that is pantheism. In fact, its vividly contrasting.

    Pantheism does not anthropomorphise God. What you see is manifestation of God. There is no difference between what you get, what you see, and divinity. Its all God. Pantheism is sometimes argued based on the Bible, but not with this particular set of verses of the New Testament.

    So the verses you provided do not speak pantheism.
     
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  5. FooYang

    FooYang Active Member

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    Yes or no?

    By "all things" do you mean the Universe or 'that which transcends'?

    Help us out here.
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    behold he is coming with the thoughts and every eye will see him even those who understand(stand in the midst) him.
    if christ and god are imminent and spiritual = mental, then the kingdom of god is self-evident, self-actualized, self-realized.


    The Kingdom of God, however, in order to be established on earth, requires recognition by man; that is, to use the Hasidæan phrase borrowed from Babylonia or Persia, man must "take upon himself the yoke of the Kingdom of God" ("'Ol Malkut Shamayim"; "Heaven" is a synonym of "God"; see Heaven).


    pantheism | Search Online Etymology Dictionary

    "belief that God and the universe are identical," from pantheist (n.), which was coined (1705)


    so the word pantheism was coined in 1705; doesn't mean the idea didn't exist prior.
     
    #86 Fool, Aug 24, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  7. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    pantheism doesn't transcend anything,
     
  8. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

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  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    you already failed with necessarily.


    the world doesn't cease to exist simply because it ceases to exist in the form of anthropomorphism. for god, for i am that i am still exists as the world.


    Psalms 104:5
    even though it changes it still is


    in the twinkling of an eye, all will be changed.


    1 Corinthians 15:52


    ;)
     
    #89 Fool, Aug 24, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Well true. The idea of pantheism existed as I believe from some Greek philosophers. Although I thought that the word itself was created somewhere just before the 1705 date you cited. 1897? But who cares about the date it was coined! ;)

    But self actualised, self realised etc are not coming from the Bible unless one verse is cherry picked for a whole theology. It is not.

    If you wish, it could be rendered as 'self attained' but through the teachings of Christ. That is based on the Bible. ITs theology of the Bible, not philosophy that you develop.

    Anyway, cheers.
     
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  11. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the idea is older than that and jesus would have been influenced by it; as has already been shown by the babylonian influence. i got plenty of cherries for you; if you need more.

    case in point the parable of washing the inside of the cups/plates and not just the outside which becomes clean/pure from washing/cleaning the inside.


    Some scholars assert that Zoroastrianism's concept of divinity covers both being and mind as immanent entities, describing Zoroastrianism as having a belief in an immanent self-creating universe with consciousness as its special attribute, thereby putting Zoroastrianism in the pantheistic fold sharing its origin with Indian Brahmanism.


     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Ah. The parallel theory. Not a cherry for me. I think its quite an assumption. Aleph-bet look a lot like Alphabet. So lets make some assumptions someone stole from someone. Of course.

    Thanks. Cheers.
     
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  13. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the spice-silk road ran through the area. there were even buddhist missionaries in first century middle east. the magi were farsi
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Hindu temples in India believe Jesus was one of their students. So do some Buddhists. And some Muslims like a lot of Ahmadhiyas believe Jesus reached, preached and died in Kashmir. And the Kashmiri Jews were the "lost sheep of Israel" the Bible was talking about. They even have a tomb that's associated to Yusasaf they believe was Jesus. A Buddhist collection of books in a cupboard in a Tibetan temple is supposed to have Jesus's writings or writings about him awaiting to be opened by the next Lama whom they are waiting for. Some believe that the two personalities of the OT and NT is due to Jesus's learnings from Buddhists. Whats with all the give the other cheek compared to the wrathful God of the OT? And of course the Hindus believe in their Ahimsa wadha was what Jesus was preaching, not the Jewish traditional teachings from the Tanah. Maybe this justifies the dilemma Marcion faced. ;)

    Many many theories brother man.

    And by the way, Farsi is a language. If you are referring to the modern day Zoroastrians, yes the typical magi's are zoroastrians and I doubt they were called parsis at the time. Saying all of these options and theories we have heard of, what's the whole point? How is all of this related to your OP?

    But you are contradicting yourself I don't understand why. Because you are saying a lot of things. I think you are just saying all the information you can think of. If Jesus learned from there Buddhists, then her is opposed to pantheism. If he learned from Hindus and was preaching pantheism, then its not agreeing with the anthromophisation of God.

    I think you are just saying everything you can think of. I bet that its better to dig a deep well rather than dig 10 X 1 inch wells. No point.

    Peace.
     
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  15. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    ideas aren't unique to most cultures. in fact, ideas generally influence and are incorporated by other cultures.

    case in point:


    ahmi yat ahmi

    otherwise known as

    ehyeh asher ehyeh

    also known as

    nuk pu nuk

    also understood as probably

    ahea ashur ahea
     
  16. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    So your point is that there are certain similarities in different theologies.

    So whats your point?
     
  17. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    there is nothing new under the sun
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    So how is that relevant to your OP brother?
     
  19. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    its relevant to that fact that you're trying to exclude it from judaism and you've been shown that judaism was influenced by other cultures; which knew of the idea of pantheism. not the word but the idea.
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Okay. So Judaism was influenced according to you. Alright. I agree. So yet brother, how is that relevant to the OP?
     
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