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Jesus and other gods.The Difference !

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by bhakthi, Nov 30, 2005.

  1. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    The ox knows its owner And the donkey its master's crib; But Israel does not know, My people do not consider." Isaiah ;1:3
    And He said, "Go, and tell this people: 'Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.' "Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed." Then I said, "Lord, how long?" And He answered: "Until the cities are laid waste and without inhabitant, The houses are without a man, The land is utterly desolate, "Isaiah;6;10-13
     
  2. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    So did Popeye - "I AM what I AM and that's ALL that I AM' I believe was the saying - , and no-one is bestowing divinity on him because of it.
     
  3. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu Holding All and None

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    The mere utterance of I AM does not justify giving Jesus divinity. One would have to be able to perfectly translate Greek and have a full copy of the original Biblical texts, as well as other requirements in order to have even a somewhat accurate translation of the Bible. And even then, someone would be able to take the "accurate" translation and turn Jesus into God anyway. So in itself, the argument that Jesus is God depends a great deal on personal opinions concerning theology, christology, epistemology, and especially historical context of biblical writings.
     
  4. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Bhakthi
    What Makes Jesus The Son Of God?
    Before Lord Jesus was born, Angel Gabriel appeared to Mary to speak about His birth and told her like this, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the holy child to be born will be called the Son of God.” Mathew;1:35
    When Jesus came to be baptized by John the Baptist in Jordan, heaven opened and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove came down and stayed on Jesus and a voice was heard from heaven, ”This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased”Mark;1:10,11

    Lord Jesus did not pop up like any other religious or political leader.The world was waiting for him.When his star appeard in the sky wise men came from the east looking for the newborn king of Israel.They knew this was extra ordinary child.Many kings and prophets spoke about his coming and they wanted his coming happen in their days.John the baptist once sent his disciples and asked Jesus, 'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another ?'" Luke;7:20 Martha confessed to Jesus saying, "Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world." John;11:27.When Philip met Lord Jesus he brought Nathanael to him saying,” We have found him,of whom Moses in the law,and the prophets, wrote." John;1:45 Abraham rejoiced that he would see his day and he saw it and was glad.Moses wrote about him.David called him Lord. Isaiah saw his glory.John the baptist saw him and testified publicly that Jesus was the Son of God.

    When Jesus was on the Mount with Peter James and John Elijah and Moses appeared to them and the same voice head at the time of baptism was heard from the cloud one more time saying,” This is My beloved Son; listen to Him!”.Mark ; 9:4-7

    Jesus himself spoke these words, ”God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved.”John;3:17

    While Lord Jesus was ministering in Jerusalem once he spoke like this,” For whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in the same way.”John;5:19

    No other man can make a claim like this.Lord Jesus said that he can do all things the Father[God] does No prophet, not even Moses or Elijah could ever say something like this.

    This makes Jesus equal with God.

    Another statement Jesus made shows that He is omnipresent like God.Lord Jesus said, “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there among them." Mathew;18:20

    Only God can be present in many different places at the same time.If Jesus was only a man he could not have made this statement.

    Claiming to be the Son of God was the only reason the Jews found to hand Jesus over to Pilate. After Jesus was arrested The High Priest before the council asked him,

    “Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am." Luke;22:70

    When the Jews brought Jesus before the governor they accused him saying, "We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He made Himself the Son of God." John;19:7

    And Jesus did not deny the charge.

    Witnessing the earthquake and the darkness and all that happened at the time of the crucifixion, the Roman centurion said,”This was truly the Son of God.” Luke;23:47

    The Koran says Jesus is the Ruh or the Spirit of God.That makes him one with God. A man’s spirit is not something apart from him.The spirit of a man is that man himself.Just like that God’s Spirit is one with Him.Lord Jesus said,”I and the Father are One.”John;10

    Jesus was different from all other human beings for this reason because He came from God.It cannot be said about Adam that he was the the spirit of God.Adam was made out of dust.All other humans have descended from him and possess the Adamic nature.None of them can claim that he is the Spirit of God.Only Jesus was different.

    The first chapter of the gospel of John says,” In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.”John;1:1-3

    Before going to heaven Lord Jesus told his disciples,”I am with you always even to the end of the age.”Mathew ;28 .No man, how great or mighty, could ever say this before he leaves the world that he will be with his family or nation or property forever.Lord Jesus can be in heaven and on earth at the same time. Jesus Christ is Immanuel which means- God Is with us.



     
  5. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Bhakthi
    That is Popeye .This is Jesus Christ the Lord .
     
  6. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    That's what you would like to think right? You've got nothing to lose if your right, but what if you're wrong? And on another note, I laid out a number of scriptures in reference to Jesus's claims of deity and being on equal footing with God The Father earlier in the thread, not to mention the numerous times throughout the New Testament in which Jesus referred to Himself as the "Son of Man", which by the way has a direct link to His divinity in the Book of Daniel (Chapter 7:13,14) in the Old Testament. Many times, we miss the truth even when it's staring you right in the face. ;)
     
  7. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Right, it is the standard doctrine of Christianity, exegeted from the scripture, that deity is ascribed to Jesus. I don't know how one could study the Bible seriously as God's word and not arrive at that evident conclusion. But, there are all kinds I guess. (shrugs and exits thread).
     
  8. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    Some think that every time Jesus speaks in the first person He is claiming divinity.
    If he ever said "I am going to the bathroom" as a quote, there are some who would say that it was a claim to divinity.

    Popeye's quote isL IyammwudIyamandthatzallwudIyam.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  9. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu Holding All and None

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    Blueman that's your truth. It's not mine and I can't believe that the whole reason we live is to be drawn to one religion, because I see diversity as the best thing in the world. The fact that you think the absolute truth of the world is one religion says more about you than me. At least I admit I can be wrong. You think you're right and always ask non-believers if they're afraid of death, when many aren't.
     
  10. Fatmop

    Fatmop Active Member

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    I like how Bhakthi has only replied to the Biblical "is Jesus God?" questions while ignoring those of us who called him for proselytizing. Way to cherry-pick!
     
  11. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Bhakthi - Jesus said he can do all things that the Father [God in heaven] does.Jesus said said he was the Son of God.That makes him One with God.Yes Jesus is God ,The Mighty God. In his own words,
    " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John;3:16-19
     
  12. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    Those are not Jesus' words, they are the words of John. I believe that acceptance of Jesus is acceptance of God, and through that we are saved. THrough Jesus we know God, but we do not come to knowledge of the Essence of God, that is beyond our capabilities.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  13. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Yes those are the words[John;3:16] Jesus Christ himsilf spoke
    And this also he said,
    ” He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God..”John;.3:,18

    “The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. 3:36
     
  14. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Bhakthi.
    This was a post by Bhakthi
     
  15. John Debaptist

    John Debaptist New Member

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    Jesus appears in the Old Testament as the Angel of the Lord and he is called God. Here in Exodus 3 we see an indication of a mystery in the Godhead where there are two calling themselves God.

    [2] And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush; and he looked, and lo, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed.
    [3] And Moses said, "I will turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt."
    [4] When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here am I."
    [5] Then he said, "Do not come near; put off your shoes from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."
    [6] And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

    We see the same individual in Joshua chapter 5:13

    When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man stood before him with his drawn sword in his hand; and Joshua went to him and said to him, "Are you for us, or for our adversaries?"


    [14] And he said, "No; but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and worshiped, and said to him, "What does my lord bid his servant?"
    [15] And the commander of the LORD's army said to Joshua, "Put off your shoes from your feet; for the place where you stand is holy." And Joshua did so.

    Isaiah 44:6 Explicitly spells it out, there are two main characters in the Godhead

    6] Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel
    and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
    "I am the first and I am the last;
    besides me there is no god.

    One of them came to earth and became Jesus Christ.

    It was actually predicted in the book of Daniel chapter 9 in the 70 weeks prophecy about 500 years before Christ.

    25] Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time.
    [26] And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.
    [27] And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

    This prophecy was given to Daniel when the Jewish people were in captivity in Babylon. The Babylonians had conquered the nation of Judah and Daniel was one of the captives.

    Daniel prayed for the liberation of his people and God gave him a very precise mathematical prophecy which went far into the future from Daniel's time. This prophecy would pinpoint the arrival of the Messiah at the exact time. It would occur 490 years from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem which was in 457BC.

    There was a period of 490 years alloted to the Jewish nation church which began in 457 BC and ended with the stoning of the disciple Steven in 34AD.

    FRom 457BC--- up-----to( 27AD=Jesus baptism= 483 years). From (27AD to 31AD was 3 1/2 ) years. Jesus crucifixtion took place in 31AD and (3 1/2 years from 31AD Steven the apostle was stoned in 34AD )and then the gospel according to the book of Acts went out to the gentile nations. All in all a total of 490 years were fulfilled exactly as foretold by Daniel.

    Jesus had to arrive on the scene before the destruction of the second temple in Jerusalem because the prophecy clearly stated in Daniel 9 says

    And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.

    The Roman General Titus came to Jerusalem in 70AD and destroyed the City and burned down the temple as foretold by Daniel. Is Jesus the Angel of the Lord of the Old Testament? Yes he is. Keep in mind that angel means messenger. Also keep in mind that Jesus is God.

    The prophet Malachi states in chapter 4

    1)Behold, I send my messenger to prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts.
    [2] But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears?
    "For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap;

    Who is the messenger of the covenant? It is the Angel of the Lord of the Old Testament, the Captain of the Lord's armies. He is the one who would come from eternity to the temple in Jerusalem.

    We know from the gospels that Jesus tried to cleanse the temple. Also keep in mind that Malachi was that last prophet of the Old Testament and then came a period of 400 years and the next thing that was heard was the voice of John the Baptist proclaiming the first coming of the Messiah as stated above in verse one of the book of Malachi.

    The book of Micah states that the Messiah is not an ordinary individual he would come from eternity.

    2] But you, O Bethlehem Eph'rathah,
    who are little to be among the clans of Judah,
    from you shall come forth for me
    one who is to be ruler in Israel,
    whose origin is from of old,
    from ancient days.

    Then in the new testament we find John 1:1

    [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    [2] He was in the beginning with God;
    [3] all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
    [4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
    [5] The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
    [6]
    There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.


    [7] He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him.
    [8] He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.
    [9]
    The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world.


    [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not.
    [11] He came to his own home, and his own people received him not.
    [12] But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;
    [13] who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
    [14]
     
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