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Jesus and other gods.The Difference !

bhakthi

Member
Bhakthi-
Jesus Christ is the only person in history who announced what he would do after his death.He declared all his plans before he leaves the world


He told the disciples that the world will not see him any more but they will see him agian.

He said he would rise from the dead on the third day.Jesus died and rose again as he said

and appeared to the disciples for many days.

He said he would send the Holy Spirit when he goes to the Father in heaven and he did that.

He said he was going to prepare a place for them and once he did that he wiould come back and receive them to himself.

No kings or rulers or religious leaders ever told their families or followers or nations before they leave the world that they will be with them forever.But Jesus said to his disciples that he will be with them always even unto the end of the age.

Jesus is the only Person who came to save others .He came as the Savior of the world.

Jesus came as a mediator between man and God- to reconcile the world to God the creator.

The plans he declared includes

The rapture of the church ,Raising of all the dead,Judging the nations,Ruling and reigning over all the earth as King of kings and Lord of lords,Removing death forever etc,etc

His tomb is empty.Jesus Christ is the most live Person in the universe.The Holy Bible calls him a Living Stone. “And whoever falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." Mathew;21:44.He is very much alive and active and is continuing his work through his disciples even to this day.As for the other gods there will come a time when no one will remember their names or talk about them any more.They will be forgotten like the gods of the past whom the nations of the world worshiped,The Holy Bible says,"The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."Jeremiah;10:11.

And finally “At the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow in heaven and on eath and under the earth and every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord.” Philippians;2:10,11
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
bhakthi said:
Bhakthi-
Jesus Christ is the only person in history who announced what he would do after his death.He declared all his plans before he leaves the world


He told the disciples that the world will not see him any more but they will see him agian.

He said he would rise from the dead on the third day.Jesus died and rose again as he said

and appeared to the disciples for many days.

He said he would send the Holy Spirit when he goes to the Father in heaven and he did that.

He said he was going to prepare a place for them and once he did that he wiould come back and receive them to himself.

No kings or rulers or religious leaders ever told their families or followers or nations before they leave the world that they will be with them forever.But Jesus said to his disciples that he will be with them always even unto the end of the age.

Jesus is the only Person who came to save others .He came as the Savior of the world.

Jesus came as a mediator between man and God- to reconcile the world to God the creator.

The plans he declared includes

The rapture of the church ,Raising of all the dead,Judging the nations,Ruling and reigning over all the earth as King of kings and Lord of lords,Removing death forever etc,etc

His tomb is empty.Jesus Christ is the most live Person in the universe.The Holy Bible calls him a Living Stone. “And whoever falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." Mathew;21:44.He is very much alive and active and is continuing his work through his disciples even to this day.As for the other gods there will come a time when no one will remember their names or talk about them any more.They will be forgotten like the gods of the past whom the nations of the world worshiped,The Holy Bible says,"The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."Jeremiah;10:11.

And finally “At the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow in heaven and on eath and under the earth and every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord.” Philippians;2:10,11
O.K, so your point is ?
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Ronald said:
Really! Did you miss his point?
He was either proselytizing or making a point,
the one is not allowed and I can't find the other.
So Michal asked the question.........?

Terry______________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.



 

Fatmop

Active Member
Atheism/Agnosticism and other philosophies: THE DIFFERENCE!!

1) We can claim Mark Twain.
2) We've existed in every society ever, if not in our present form.
3) We don't believe prophecies and other godly hoo-hah have any sway over the world.

Try to find the well-hidden point in THAT!
 

john313

warrior-poet
i think thor is the only one with a big hammer. does that make him better or worse than your image of Jesus?
i hope i am not around when the corpses are raised, that will stink.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
He was either proselytizing or making a point,
the one is not allowed and I can't find the other.
So Michal asked the question.........?

Terry______________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
My version of his title "The difference between Jesus and other gods"

"Jesus and other gods the difference"

Now do you have a clue?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Ronald said:
My version of his title "The difference between Jesus and other gods"

"Jesus and other gods the difference"

Now do you have a clue?
This is rapidly descending to the level of a nagging headache.
Bhakthi, do you intend enlightening us ?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Ronald said:
My version of his title "The difference between Jesus and other gods"

"Jesus and other gods the difference"

Now do you have a clue?
Where did Jesus EVER claim to BE God? Nowhere in the Gospels for sure. Nowhere in His Own words for sure. He would have been deeply offended if His followers claimed Him to BE God.

Regards,
Scott
 

bhakthi

Member
Popeyesays said:
Where did Jesus EVER claim to BE God? Nowhere in the Gospels for sure. Nowhere in His Own words for sure. He would have been deeply offended if His followers claimed Him to BE God.

Regards,
Scott
Bhakthi-
God raised Jesus from the dead and made him sit at the right of His throne in heaven.
When Jesus appears in the heavens one of these days, All the believers who are waiting for him will be translated to join with him in the clouds.
When he speaks all the dead who are in the graves will come out alive.
He will judge the nations and will cast all the wicked into the hell.
Is Jesus God or not?
"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men."John;1:1-4
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."]
Regards
 

almifkhar

Active Member
bhakthi

your john 1 14 is in direct conflict with god raised jesus from the dead a placed him at his right.

and i have to ask if jesus is the only god why would you head this tread with jesus and other gods, the difference?
and please talk in your own language, this means not to quote the good book
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
bhakthi said:
Bhakthi-
God raised Jesus from the dead and made him sit at the right of His throne in heaven.
When Jesus appears in the heavens one of these days, All the believers who are waiting for him will be translated to join with him in the clouds.
When he speaks all the dead who are in the graves will come out alive.
He will judge the nations and will cast all the wicked into the hell.
Is Jesus God or not?
"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men."John;1:1-4
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."]
Regards
Matthew 5:
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Matthew 7:
"


10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? 12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Matthew 11:
"


25At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 19:

"


16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Mark 10:
"


17And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. 19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Luke 11:
"12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?


13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? 14And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.

Luke 18:
"18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?


19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother."

John 10:

"


31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

So, again and again Jesus works to set Himself apart from the identity of God. The only way to ignore that is to think that Jesus was deliberately misleading or speaking lies or half-truths to conceal His nature from us.

Jesus was the Son of God. Jesus was the Spirit of God. Jesus, in His own blessed words was NEVER GOD.

Regards,
Scott
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
The Bible in many places says Jesus is God.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God is for ever and ever.
I Timothy And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh...
Romans 14:10b,12 For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ...So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Jesus accepted worship, we are only to worship God, see Matt 2:2,11, 14:33, John 9:38, Heb. 1:6.(and many more)
Jesus also forgave peoples' sins, and only God could do that.
Jesus is called Emmanuel, which means God with us.

The Bible makes it very clear that Jesus is God.
The Bible says there is one God, and we are to worship only Him.
The Bible says we know God is who he says because he tells the future and it happens.
The God of the Bible is the only one true God and deserves our worship and praise.
This God shed his own blood for us so we may live forever with him.

Acts 20:28b ...feed the church of GOD which he hath purchased with his OWN BLOOD.

Jesus is Lord!

Sincerely,

Joeboonda
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
The Bible in many places says Jesus is God.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God is for ever and ever.
I Timothy And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh...
Romans 14:10b,12 For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ...So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Jesus accepted worship, we are only to worship God, see Matt 2:2,11, 14:33, John 9:38, Heb. 1:6.(and many more)
Jesus also forgave peoples' sins, and only God could do that.
Jesus is called Emmanuel, which means God with us.

The Bible makes it very clear that Jesus is God.
The Bible says there is one God, and we are to worship only Him.
The Bible says we know God is who he says because he tells the future and it happens.
The God of the Bible is the only one true God and deserves our worship and praise.
This God shed his own blood for us so we may live forever with him.

Acts 20:28b ...feed the church of GOD which he hath purchased with his OWN BLOOD.

Jesus is Lord!

Sincerely,

Joeboonda
Context! Context! Context!
John 20: 25-29
" 25The other disciples therefore said to him, We have seen the Lord. But he said to them, Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and put my finger into the mark of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.


26And eight days after, his disciples were again within, and Thomas with them. Jesus comes, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst and said, Peace [be] to you.

27Then he says to Thomas, Bring thy finger here and see my hands; and bring thy hand and put it into my side; and be not unbelieving, but believing.

28Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God. 29Jesus says to him, Because thou hast seen me thou hast believed: blessed they who have not seen and have believed. "

It was a simple statement of awe. "My Lord and My God!" It does not mean that Thomas is saying Jesus IS God. To read it so is childish at best.

Hebrews 1 Darby translation

" 3who being [the] effulgence of his glory and [the] expression of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, having made [by himself] the purification of sins, set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high,


4taking a place by so much better than the angels, as he inherits a name more excellent than they.

5For to which of the angels said he ever, *Thou* art my Son: this day have *I* begotten thee? and again, *I* will be to him for father, and *he* shall be to me for son?

6and again, when he brings in the firstborn into the habitable world, he says, And let all God's angels worship him.

7And as to the angels he says, Who makes his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire;

8but as to the Son, Thy throne, O God, [is] to the age of the age, and a sceptre of uprightness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9Thou hast loved righteousness and hast hated lawlessness; therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee with oil of gladness above thy companions.

10And, *Thou* in the beginning, Lord, hast founded the earth, and works of thy hands are the heavens.

11They shall perish, but *thou* continuest still; and they all shall grow old as a garment, 12and as a covering shalt thou roll them up, and they shall be changed; but *thou* art the Same, and thy years shall not fail. "

Here (in the Epistle which is not the direct words of Jesus, by the by) the author is describing the granting of a special station to Jesus. In fact it says that on that day IN HEAVEN Jesus was begotten of God, not while He was on earth. Again you we have a miss by a mile.

1 Timothy 3rd chapter (you neglected to give chapter and verse for this one)

"1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.


2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:

15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

This is the chapter in its entirety since the verse you quoted out of context is merely the signatory phrase, the discussion of the chapter is entirely unrelated. Its like signing a letter "sincerely yours" or "your humble servant" or "Shalom Alekham"

Again its says manifest in the FLESH, not Manifest in Essence. It says justified in the Spirit, not God present in HIS OWN EXALTED STATE, right? Jesus was a man, and part of Him was the Spirit of God, but only part of Him, not ALL of Him and not ALL of God. Again you have to read in context and with some thought.

Romans 14 from the beginning to verse (You are not only taking out of context but deleting and intervening verse, how can you read for understanding like that?)
"


1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. "

Did you not read verse 11?: "As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. " AGAIN we have a clear dichotomy between Christ and God and you overlook it. I would also point out that you have missed the whole poinjt of the chapter which is an attempt to rectify the Jewish Kosher laws and the Christian stance on what is clean and unclean food.

The rest of your citation is just the same.

Regards,
Scott
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Scott, that was a very good post, but, no matter how you want to dance around it, the Bible clearly ascribes deity to Christ. He was prayed to, forgave sins, accepted worship, and was called God, and called himself I AM, He is part of the trinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. He was made a little lower than the angels, for a short while, humbling himself even to death on the cross. I am not saying there is not a Father God, too, I am saying that Jesus is God, and the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, three in one. He was clear, that if you are to know the Father, you must go through him. Look, I preach Christ crucified, like Paul, nothing more, nothing less. Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, There is no man ever on this earth that was, is, or ever will be his equal.

Sincerely,

Joeboonda

P.S. Did you TYPE all those verses, or is there some way you can copy them in? It takes me forever to write a post that long. Let me know if you would. Thanks!
 

Fluffy

A fool
I agree with Popeyesays on this one. The only place in the Bible where Jesus actually claims that he is God (ie not described as God by his followers) is in John. Now since this was written later than the other Gospels, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that this change was due to a religious evolution and not what Jesus himself actually claimed because if he had, why did Matthew, Mark and Luke not state it as explicitly as John did? Answer because Jesus never claimed it and John was putting words into his mouth.

Not saying that Jesus isn't a god, just saying that the Biblical evidence for him claiming it is tenuous at best.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
Scott, that was a very good post, but, no matter how you want to dance around it, the Bible clearly ascribes deity to Christ. He was prayed to, forgave sins, accepted worship, and was called God, and called himself I AM, He is part of the trinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. He was made a little lower than the angels, for a short while, humbling himself even to death on the cross. I am not saying there is not a Father God, too, I am saying that Jesus is God, and the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, three in one. He was clear, that if you are to know the Father, you must go through him. Look, I preach Christ crucified, like Paul, nothing more, nothing less. Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, There is no man ever on this earth that was, is, or ever will be his equal.

Sincerely,

Joeboonda

P.S. Did you TYPE all those verses, or is there some way you can copy them in? It takes me forever to write a post that long. Let me know if you would. Thanks!
Sure! I can dazzle you with the "light" and some "razzle" too. First stop Bible Gateway:
http://www.biblegateway.com/ Their "Quick Search" is not much good but on the left is a "passage look up" where you can go to a book, chapter or verse directly if you know the numbers and name of the book containing what you want. Its great. Also you have the "Passage Lookup" this is really great cause you can put in keywords or phrases and search the whole bible or just the old or new testament, or just the Gospels or just the Epistles, or just the books of Moses or whatever.

Next stop: The Noble Qur'an: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ Here you can search through a parallel version of English translations of the Qur'an. There is a detailed index of topics and you can look for Surah and verse as well. The hadiths are also available.

Now the best bet is to download "Ocean". Ocean is available from a Baha`i developer. In it fully searchable are Baha`i books, Christian sources including the King James Bible, Islamic sources, five translations of the Qur'an, all of the Bukhari hadiths and also several source books on Islam, Buddhist sources including the Baghavad Gita, COnfucian writings, Judaic sources, including the TaNakh complete in English, Zoroastrian sources, its a great source and it is downloaded onto your computer for access even when you are not on line. The download is more than fifty megabytes, but you can get the developer to send you an installation disc complete for $5 total cost including shipping and handling and the media cost for the CD ROM. If you cannot afford it, they will send it free if you ask. There is no profit made on the source program. Its a long download unless you have broadband but well worth the effort, even if you have to start the download and go to bed to install it the next morning.

Please be aware that while I think the Trinity is excellent metaphor, I do not accept chopping God up or multiplying Him. It is not offered in the Bible and EVERY revealed religion has a Trinity composed of the Giver of the Gift (God), the Receiver of the Gift (the Prophet) and the Gift Itself, (The revelation). So I do not accept the usual Nicaean interpretation of the Trinity as based in fact. God is ONE!
"6,4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. 6,5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6,6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; 6,7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 6,8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. 6,9 And thou shalt write them upon the door-posts of thy house, and upon thy gates."
(Torah (Law), Devarim (Deuteronomy))

PS, I pulled that up from Ocean in about 14 seconds, and my computer is slow.

Regards,
Scott
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Fluffy said:
I agree with Popeyesays on this one. The only place in the Bible where Jesus actually claims that he is God (ie not described as God by his followers) is in John. Now since this was written later than the other Gospels, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that this change was due to a religious evolution and not what Jesus himself actually claimed because if he had, why did Matthew, Mark and Luke not state it as explicitly as John did? Answer because Jesus never claimed it and John was putting words into his mouth.

Not saying that Jesus isn't a god, just saying that the Biblical evidence for him claiming it is tenuous at best.
Well, I guess we will not agree, that is ok. I am one who believes the entire Bible is the word of God and good for doctrine. In every church I have been, and in all my studies, christians always ascribe deity to Jesus. I am a fundamentalist when it comes to doctrine, nothing has ever changed that. Those mains things, the inerrancy, infallibility, and literal truth of the Bible in every detal; the virgin birth and complete deity of Jesus, the physical resurrection of Christ and all dead, the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world; and the second coming of Christ in bodily form, I simply will not depart from. But that is my belief, just sharing.

Sincerely,

Joeboonda
 
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