Jesus ain't God.

[nothead]

EyeofOdin said: ↑
IMO Jesus was an illiterate, lower class, uneducated peasant who had the treasonous agenda to kick Rome out of Palestine and reestablish it as an independent nation. It was for this reason he was crucified.
Click to expand...
You should read the NT.


Uneducated meant unschooled in the rabbinical school. He read from Scripture in the temple. Rudolf Bultmann has that Jesus was an itinerant, eschatological Jewish prophet whose original disciples knew him only as such, and whom the post-apostolic Hellenistic church deified as the Son of God; "Jesus proclaimed the Kingdom of God...the kerygma of the Hellenistic church proclaimed Jesus as the crucified and risen Christ"

This is same faith debates, i.e. Christian, sir.

 

[nothead]

If you want to follow the Law of Moses then you will judge according to the Law of Moses, and that is, THE WHOLE LAW OF MOSES. Do you think you could follow THE WHOLE LAW OF MOSES without a single fault? That’s what I think. Therefore, you failed and will be judge according to the Law of Moses or Moses/Law of Moses is your accuser.

Not only Moses but God whom said to prioritize HIM above all, with all. Since less than ALL, I will stand accused and grovel and SHOUT for my mediator, with fear and trembling, sir.

 

[nothead]

I find it hard to believe that the Prophet Abraham was monotheistic. I would think that he would have been aware of previous stories of the activities of God as outlined in Genesis up until his time, particularly the story of creation. There are some Scriptures that you should consider when asking the question ‘Was Abram/Abraham monotheistic?’

Of course he was, although his daddy weren't. Canaanite God's were Baal, Baal's wife and kiddies, maybe especially the Golden Calf. The reason why I think this, is because Baal was known as the Bull God.

Here are some events in Scriptures:- In Chapter 1 of Genesis, we read…
Ist event in Genesis 1:26-27 (NIV2011)
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
Note the plural of God then identified in the singular. Who then is the OUR and the US. The consistency with the rest of the Bible will tell us that it can be identified as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This is not the only instance. Similarly, see also the plurality of God displayed in Genesis 3:22, 23 and Genesis 11:7
2nd event in Genesis 18:1-2 (NIV2011)

Please understand the Judaic Trad-terp here, he was sprechen to other elohim in heaven, not himselfs. As if THAT made any sense, sir.

Genesis Rabba 98

Then God said, "Let us make man in our likeness, and let there be a creature not only the product of earth, but also gifted with heavenly, spiritual elements, which will bestow on him reason, intellect, and understanding." Truth then appeared, falling before God's throne, and in all humility exclaimed: "Deign, O God, to refrain from calling into being a creature who is beset with the vice of lying, who will tread truth under his feet." Peace came forth to support this petition. "Wherefore, O lord, shall this creature appear on earth, a creature so full of strife and contention, to disturb the peace and harmony of thy creation? He will carry the flame of quarrel and ill-will in his trail; he will bring about war and destruction in his eagerness for gain and conquest."

1 The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.
Here we see Abraham visited by three men/angels/LORD with the view of passing judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah. This is also where God became the guest of His own saints. You can read the full account for yourself in Genesis 18. The story develops as such…
Genesis 18:20-21 (NIV2011) 20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.” But then
Genesis 18:22 (NIV2011) 22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD.

IF God came as a man, HE was veiled as one, with the same mind, will and self-awareness or consciousness. To tack on other's is pure dee heresy, BY the Shema.

Here we have the pluralistic existence of Yahweh, put on display. Yahweh remained with Abraham, yet Yahweh went down to Sodom. Would have Abraham had an idea of the pluralistic nature of Yahweh? The answer is Yes. It wasn’t a problem for him, why is it a problem for you?

Um, by the First Principle in the Universe, numero uno in Mk 12 red letter? Just guessin'.

These verses are only up until the time and including Abraham. There is much, much more in the Old Testament after the time of Abraham which shows the pluralistic nature of God, and yet God is One God. In conclusion, if you have any doubt about the pluralism of God anywhere else, can I leave you with the two Yahwehs verse in Isaiah 44:6 which reads:- Isaiah 44:6 (KJV) 6 Thus saith YAHWEH the King of Israel, and his redeemer the YAHWEH of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
In Hebrew it reads:-
אָמַר (Thus Saith) יְהוָֹה (Yahweh), מֶלֶךְ (the King) יִשְׂרָאֵל (of Israel) גָּאַל (and His redeemer) יְהוָֹה (Yahweh) צָבָא (of Hosts) רִאשׁוֹן (I am the first) אַחֲרוֹן (I am the last) בִּלְעֲדֵי (and beside) אֱלֹהִים (Me there is no god)
Here we have two Yahwehs, Yahweh the Father, and Yahweh who is Jesus Christ who is the Redeemer of mankind. Don’t believe it? Check your own interlinear for yourselves, and yet some ungodly people with a hidden agenda, try to cover it up by revealing only one Yahweh. May the Spirit of God speak to your hearts? Christ’s Prophet. Certainty for eternity.

Shema was their First Principle, sir, said to put on your forehead and hand. Told to your children that they may fear the One True God. One Person, YHWH. One Being, God. NO OTHER deigned to call themself "YHWH," including Jesus.
Get with the orthodoxy of the day of Jesus, HIMSELF as orthodox as they come. Mk 12 again, the scribe saying "NO OTHER BUT HE," and then Jesus saying he was close to them Pearly Gates, NOT EVEN said to his own disciples, sir.

 

[nothead]

Sorry, I actually did not address the specific topic of is Jesus God or not. The answer to that is quite simple if we understand the historical meaning of the word God as it was used 2000 years ago. Jesus was a God yes, but today's use of the word God means the Infinite Omnipresence, the Great Spirit, the Creator / Creation itself, the almighty most high as in God. But at the time Jesus, whose real name was actually Jmmanuel Apollonius of Tyana, was a God. A God of Wisdom. The Word God was a title given to a human being who evolved to the highest level of wisdom and knowledge possible by a human being in physical form. He accepted this title because at the time it was an honor to reach this level of knowledge, wisdom, and love. But Jmmanuel never claimed to be God the creator of the Universe and all life. God of Wisdom is what he was so the answer is both. Yes he was a God, but in the sense the word was used 2000 years ago as a title for an evolved master of the knowledge. But no he was a human being not the creator of the universe. This should be easy to conclude if you believe he walked on earth as a man and have a minimal understanding of the age of the universe and the essential basic elements for life to exist.

You gnostic, nuevo heepy. This is same faith debates, sir. God of Appollonius of Tyana my patooty.

 

[nothead]

NO temple, NO worship, and NO offering and sacrifices = NO Law of Moses. Do you think Gentiles today should follow certain parts of the Law of Moses?

The Son of God is God according to the bible.
“The bible never says”, that Gentile should follow the Law of Moses but you did.

What do you think the verse means in Acts 15:

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[nothead]

It is exceedingly common for the followers of a prophet or avatar to, after his passing, regard him or her as divine. Jesus never claimed personal divinity. In fact, he denied it. And, when it might appear that he is speaking as God, I consider it very arguable that he was--as prophets generally do--allowing the wisdom of Spirit to speak through him. Not only that, but the evidence is that the Holy Scripture has been edited and altered here and there, through the centuries.


More about “getting off the path”:


It is my view that Paul, Augustine and Aquinas (not to mention figures like Zwingli and Calvin) serious warped the faith of Christianity, until it bore very little resemblance to the message of JC, e.g., as expressed in the Beatitudes. You also might want to recall that Paul was in serious disagreement with the Jerusalem church, so his version of the faith was by no means the "final word" on the subject. Then, we also have to issue of Christianity becoming the official religion of the Roman Empire in the fourth century C.E., which I consider very problematic.

I agree for the most part, except that Paul was a true hero and entirely accurate in the epistles. Unfortunately, most misconstrue his Grace vs. Works stance. This is an outgrowth of Protestant considerations.

 

[JM2C]

It is incredible you are pitting your own pet theology against the very words of Christ which I just quoted.

Or maybe not so much for you have many to affirm the very same thing. No...it is still incredible. NOT edible. NOT reasonable and NOT the Judaic POV, which by the way Paul knew.

OF COURSE I am guilty, for not doing Shema sufficiently. This is WHY continuing Grace is still a mediating and propitiating factor in my life CONTINUALLY.

"OF COURSE I am guilty, for not doing Shema sufficiently”

Therefore, you failed and will be judge according to the Law of Moses or Moses/Law of Moses is your accuser.

 

[nothead]

"OF COURSE I am guilty, for not doing Shema sufficiently”

Therefore, you failed and will be judge according to the Law of Moses or Moses/Law of Moses is your accuser.

"OF COURSE I am guilty, for not doing Shema sufficiently”

Therefore, you failed and will be judge according to the Law of Moses or Moses/Law of Moses is your accuser.

Of course I will, as will all believers. You think the Judgement Seat is for only the heathen? If the Cross was once and for all in the NT, then why a Judgment at all, for us who believe in propitiation of the Christ?

It is moot and void? Free pass to Heaven, do not pass Go, do not go to jail? What is this, kiddie theology sir?

Listen up, the FIRST thing a child learns as a Jew is the fear of God. This is also the FIRST thing wisdom requires. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. And too, the FIRST thing a Gentile had to know in order to get in the OUTER courts of the Temple. This is why they called them "God-fearers," sir.

Perusing your common and insidious posts, I have one thing to say. The LAW had actually changed by the time Peter received his dream. No longer the eating of grains on the sabbath a capital offence. Num 15:

29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.

37 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:

39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.

So then the Gentiles were given more grace, having less knowing of the actual commandments of God. The principle never changes, since God never changes, EXCEPT in regard to His face, or countenance to us.

In the age of Grace, Jesus came to proclaim not only an affirmation of Shema, but a new mercy even to the Jew, that is pertaining to the STING of the Law which is no longer that of sheer Judgement over small discretions. Ceremonial Law, eating Law, holiday and sabbath Law is less restrictive, INHERENTLY. However does this abrogate the Ten, or the Shema? Not hardly, sir, how many verses show the same Judgment for believers who then transgress this Law of Love, first to God and then to neighbor? And were the hard sayings of Jesus any less stringent and absolute?

1 Cor 6

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

So then who wrote this, but whom Protestants proclaim is the Apostle who did away with Law?

It should be obvious to anyone knowing the full counsel of God, that 1) the absolute Propitiation is not really at all
the FINISHED done deal Protestants proclaim. The fearful thing is, the Shema is as hard as it ever was, for "believers" not imbued with the Holy Spirit DESIRE to do Law. Jesus made no brook, with his hard sayings. And even for the Spirit indwelled, since this is a relative concept, the Shema is not entirely doable. Thus the words of John become clear:

1 Jn 2

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

...how shall we know sin, unless we know the Word? In our wretched hearts, some not circumcised? Same author who said, "if ye say ye not sin, ye are a liar." Now we know the true picture, that ongoing sin needs ongoing grace, through the Son. Not the FINISHED so-called Grace once and for all. Thus I can truly say I will grovel at the Judgement Seat, pleading for the same mercy which Jesus made me clean with originally. He will be there for me or not, and I will scream out the name of Jesus, hoping he will. For there is one God the Father, and one mediator between God and man, the MAN, Christ Jesus.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Abrahamic Monotheism was the religion of the first gen saints of Jesus.

Including Christ.

This says it all. Really no more needs to be said unless the hagglers want to haggle.

So then what happened since then? How did we get off the narrow path?

A nothead started teaching.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Abrahamic Monotheism was the religion of the first gen saints of Jesus.

Including Christ.

This says it all. Really no more needs to be said unless the hagglers want to haggle.

So then what happened since then? How did we get off the narrow path?

A nothead attempted teaching.

 

[bnabernard]

The moon will never be the sun regardless of how much sunlight it reflects

Bernard (hug)

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Abrahamic Monotheism was the religion of the first gen saints of Jesus.

Including Christ.

This says it all. Really no more needs to be said unless the hagglers want to haggle.
Jesus Christ "ain't God"? So said the previous sinning lying recaltrant ******* who just had his ride on a hell chute and you are next in line. Have a good last few hours if any.

So then what happened since then? How did we get off the narrow path?

 

[nothead]

A nothead started teaching.

Teo, please show a single verse whereby Jesus says he is God. Thank you. I will be happy to correct your post.

Something tells me a D- or F this way comes.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Teo, please show a single verse whereby Jesus says he is God. Thank you. I will be happy to correct your post.

Something tells me a D- or F this way comes.

"Thou shalt NOT tempt the Lord thy God" and even Satan was not stupid and did not cross this line, but you however are stupid.

 

[nothead]

"Thou shalt NOT tempt the Lord thy God" and even Satan was not stupid and did not cross this line, but you however are stupid.

Doesn't TEMPT mean to test? And doesn't testing God mean you are testing His patience? I test and wrestle with scripture, and God has put many tests to me. How can one TEST an ever-patient God? Could Jacob have actually wrestled with God and this for hours? ONLY having one leg put to impotence? A son of God tests God with questions, but the ever-patient God of the Hebrews will answer, according to Jesus: "knock and ye shall find." Is not repeated knocking conceived of by the "stupid ones" as testing God's patience? Yet the old woman who insists and with irritating loudness her desire for justice will be heard. I am that old woman, and you sir, never TESTED your own presuppostions.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Doesn't TEMPT mean to test? And doesn't testing God mean you are testing His patience? I test and wrestle with scripture, and God has put many tests to me. How can one TEST an ever-patient God? Could Jacob have actually wrestled with God and this for hours? ONLY having one leg put to impotence? A son of God tests God with questions, but the ever-patient God of the Hebrews will answer, according to Jesus: "knock and ye shall find." Is not repeated knocking conceived of by the "stupid ones" as testing God's patience? Yet the old woman who insists and with irritating loudness her desire for justice will be heard. I am that old woman, and you sir, never TESTED your own presuppostions.

You're that old woman? One foot already in the grave and the other on a banana peel and you are notheaded enough to put God to the test and put it in writing? You'll never see the light of day again.

 

[nothead]

You're that old woman? One foot already in the grave and the other on a banana peel and you are notheaded enough to put God to the test and put it in writing? You'll never see the light of day again.

So you say but I do fear God, which isn't what I can say for 99% of the Christian populace...

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

So you say but I do fear God, which isn't what I can say for 99% of the Christian populace...

You state that you fear God after posting "Jesus ain't God".
Two of your stated lies in one post. If I were you I would not be in any way concerned with any populace. It is your own hide that you've volutarily put in the sling.

 

[nothead]

You state that you fear God after posting "Jesus ain't God".
Two of your stated lies in one post. If I were you I would not be in any way concerned with any populace. It is your own hide that you've volutarily put in the sling.

I'll volutarily do what I want to. It is ME on my Judgement Seat and YOU on yours, sir.