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Jesus - a sinner?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Pah, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    From my inbox

     
  2. croak

    croak Trickster

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    We don't believe in original sin. I mean, if a baby, only a few minutes old, dies for some reason, he is not going straight to Hell. Otherwise, we'd be hearing a lot of crying. ;)
     
  3. Iacobus

    Iacobus New Member

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    If a child dies before being cleaned from original sin that doesn't mean he is damned. It was of no falut of the child that he was fallen and we must rely on the mercy of God to save his soul.
     
  4. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    I'm sorry - that doesn't seem to answer the apparent inconsistancy with a Christ being human and humans born in sin.

    -pah-
     
  5. chuck010342

    chuck010342 Active Member

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    Jesus is an exepction to the general rule. Jesus is called the second Adam for this very reason. Jesus is also the Son of God so I think he is has exempt status :)
     
  6. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Please tell where in scriputure we might find this exception.

    It is really quite simple - if Jesus has divine properties, he can not be 100% human.

    -pah-
     
  7. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    pahQuote: (Originally Posted by chuck010342)
    Jesus is an exepction to the general rule. Jesus is called the second Adam for this very reason. Jesus is also the Son of God so I think he is has exempt status :)



    pah is right, Yeshua was not God in any form, only having the untainted blood of God. The scripture saying Jesus is the second Adam is a gross mis-translation, in Hebrew the word would have been like "Firster" meaning a superior first Man Adam/sinlessAdam.

    As to the subject of "Original Sin". After Adam and Eve sinned God did not cleanse them because they did not repent, there-by carried the sin nature and passed it on to their offspring. Having Pure Blood like the original Adam, being tempted to sin and not sinning makes Yeshua the first sinless Adam, there-by providing the pure blood sacrifice to atone for all sin. :162:
     
  8. croak

    croak Trickster

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    Well, we believe Allah forgave Adam and Eve. Do Christians believe that? If you do, then Original Sin is wrong.
     
  9. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Rearing Arabian; I am not Christian! (Read Tanach commentary on Genesis 3:9)
    Oh Yes! God forgave Adam and Eve, but it was long after they were ejected from Eden.
    They learned repentance from Cain, only when Cain repented and was saved from sure death, did Adam seek to resolve his transgression.
    The yetzer harah/evil inclination, had already been passed on in their genes.:)
     
  10. Lintu

    Lintu Active Member

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    I was under the impression that some believe Mary was born without original sin, and therefore, Jesus was born without it, too.
     
  11. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get such an impression? Not in any Bible reading! Anywhere!

    Mothers blood and a babies blood never co-mingle. Yeshua did have Perfect Blood, the "Firster" Adam. There was no word to say that in Greek, so we have Second Adam.
    Yeshua is the Superior First Adam. Adam created perfect(without sin).;)
     
  12. SoulTYPE

    SoulTYPE Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did say that we all sin. Well, we do. Jesus said "We all", so that means basically that he was one too.

    PS: Sin is inevitable.
     
  13. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Ro 3:23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    This was Paul, not Yeshua! Yeshua was sinless or you are dead in your sins!
     
  14. Lintu

    Lintu Active Member

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    I got that impression from listening to other people--clearly not supposed to be authoritative. (I said: some people believe) ;)

    I don't know where that came from, either. Mary's immaculate conception, that is.
     
  15. booboo

    booboo New Member

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    Hello,

    Lintu is right. The Catholics do believe in the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Mother. This was one of the main reasons for the unfortunate schism between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church. :(

    If God so willed, all the people will be united in one faith, but if there was only one faith, then who will seek the Truth? If no one will seek the Truth and God is the Truth, then it defeats the whole purpose of creation.

    "7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." (Gospel According to St. Matthew 7:7-8)

    booboo
     
  16. croak

    croak Trickster

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    I agree. Everyone sins, except Allah. However, the Prophets were very lucky in being able not to sin a lot. I wish I could be like them.


    P.S. :162:This is not what an angel looks like. :) Isn't it cool that you can resize them? :)
     
  17. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I know it`s OT but your Bible directly contradicts this statement.

    The NT makes very clear that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ.
     
  18. chuck010342

    chuck010342 Active Member

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    Matthew 1:18
     
  19. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    The exception to be shown was that Jesus was not a sinner if born as a man.

    Try again please

    Bob
     
  20. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Quote: (Originally Posted by pah)

    Please tell where in scriputure we might find this exception.

    It is really quite simple - if Jesus has divine properties, he can not be 100% human.

    -pah-


    You are quite right, pah, He could be one or the other, but not both!
    He was born of a woman, flesh and bone, He had perfect blood of His Father God!
    He never tainted the Fathers holy blood by not succumbing to temptation and sinning.
    Yeshua was 100% man, died as a man was raised by His Father from the dead and was placed at the Right Hand of God. If God wants to bestow divinity on Him, He is able to do so.
    The Son of God, our Savior, raised by the Father, seated by God at His right-hand, is worthy of praise.
    Php 4:8
    Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

     
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